More guns the way to go? Some thoughs.

[Metric]

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If we made guns illegal, the guns used in these crimes would never exist.

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Jesus Christ, people. We're a technological species. That particular genie is out of the bottle. The obvious course of action for able-bodied humans is to learn to deal with the fact that certain humans have devised clever ways to kill you, not to try and make the rest of humanity (including the badguys) naive when it comes to such things -- that approach is utterly futile unless you'd like to live in some kind of "maximum security" environment.

[pvn]

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But the vast majority of guns used in crimes in the US were legally manufactured. If we made guns illegal, the guns used in these crimes would never exist.

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And some other gun would. This is like saying that well, gee, Coke makes most of the soda in the US, so if Coke were shut down by the government, nobody would have any soda. The world isn't static. Someone else will step up.

This is the same argument used by (eg) airlines to justify their bailouts. If they went belly up, nobody else would be able to scrape up some money, buy their fleets at liquidation, and get them up in the air. Please.

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You are claiming that guns would be just as easily obtained among criminals if they were illegal. Then why don't all criminals in Europe have guns? Do you think criminals in Europe simply don't like guns as much?

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News flash: not all criminals in the US have guns.

[rubbrband]

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Gun lovers infuriate me. You are the people who lose children becuase you couldn't bear to be without a glock or a 45 and your children blow their brains out becuase you needed to be packing. What a joke. You people are dangerous and scary.

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Have you ever seen any of the documentaries about child death by fire arms? The cause of the children's death was due to lack of knowledge and stupid parents who leave guns out were children can get them.

[pvn]

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Also, if you make guns illegal, the supply of guns will drop dramatically, regardless of the demand. Who is going to make new guns if their manufacturer and importation is illegal? It's not like the average criminal can create a handgun (or even a bullet) in his basement. Obviously, there will be existing guns floating around for a few decades, but I think most gun control advocates acknowledge that they really forsee a gun-free society 50-years down the road, and not 5-years.

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Criminals already make home made guns.

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Can you please cite an example of a murder where someone used a homemade handgun?...and I don't mean from a prepackaged gun kit. I remember a movie where John Malkovich builds a wooden handgun to evade security to assassinate the president, but I have never heard of an actual murder being committed with anything like this.

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Hahaha. Earlier you cited a movie as a defense of your point. Now you're saying that stuff in the movies doesn't count!

Again, the fact that a criminal doesn't use a handmade gun *now* - when there are mass produced alternatives that are cheaper - doesn't say anything about what they'll do when the circumstances change.

I am capable of building my own radio. I've built working transmitters and recievers from parts scavenged from other appliances. But all of my current Ham gear is manufactured by someone else.

Also, FWIW, most of the really cutting-edge amateur radio technology is homebrew. It only later filters down to the mass producers. People in their basements are paving the way.

PS: the gun malkovich's character used was ceramic.

[pvn]

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Do you see a lot of homemade guns in industrialized countries with gun control?

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No. This isn't evidence that people are incapable of making them. DUCY?

[LBK]

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Gun lovers infuriate me. You are the people who lose children becuase you couldn't bear to be without a glock or a 45 and your children blow their brains out becuase you needed to be packing. What a joke. You people are dangerous and scary.

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Think of the children! Never mind that more kids die in swimming pools. You bourgeous people just HAD to have your fancy swimming pool! You people are dangerous and scary.

OK, I don't have any kids. Now what's your line?

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That is a retarded comparison. Swimming pools aren't designed to kill things. It's sad you try and justify accidental deaths by guns to swimming pool drownings. Yes, we all know swimming pools are killing youth at an accelerated rate... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[karlwig]

everybody is talking about the black market. if we ban guns, they would get them anyway, so there's no point. that's like saying we should allow killing, cause it happens anyway.

first guns must be banned. of course you would have to do a lot about the black market too. in norway, i'm sure we have a black market where you can buy guns. but the point is, IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET ONE! a maniac can't just get a gun without an effort. it's impossible. he would have to have contacts and look carefully. this is excactly what i wrote in the original post. of course people would still get guns, and people would still get killed. but that's not the point! the point is to make it as safe as possible.

50 killed is better than 100 killed. 500 killed is better than 5000. i never said that gun banning would stop ALL murders, or make crime go away. But it would lower the gun-related deaths, naturally. And the criminals? I never said there would be less criminals, as someone here accused me of. But a criminal without a gun is better than a criminal with a gun. now i know what you're gonna say "but a criminal can get a gun anyways"! YES, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM! We're not talking single scenarios here. That's what's so frustrating about arguing with you guys. You go, "well, you don't think there would be guns? huh? no criminals with guns? huh? drugs are forbidden, people use them anyways! omg you are wrong"

im sick of this. alcohol is legal in norway. of course people would still drink if it's illegal, but LESS WOULD DO IT!

if guns were forbidden, less criminals would get guns. and that would make a safer society.

[NickMPK]

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But the vast majority of guns used in crimes in the US were legally manufactured. If we made guns illegal, the guns used in these crimes would never exist.

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And some other gun would. This is like saying that well, gee, Coke makes most of the soda in the US, so if Coke were shut down by the government, nobody would have any soda. The world isn't static. Someone else will step up.

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No, its like saying that if the government outlawed all soda, then nobody would have any soda...if soda were much more dangerous, harder to manufacture, and easier to detect.

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You are claiming that guns would be just as easily obtained among criminals if they were illegal. Then why don't all criminals in Europe have guns? Do you think criminals in Europe simply don't like guns as much?

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News flash: not all criminals in the US have guns.

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You are clearly trying to evade my point. I would claim that a far smaller percentage of criminals in industrialized countries where handgun ownership is illegal own guns than do criminals in America. Are you actually going to dispute this? If you don't dispute this, then why is this?

[LBK]

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Gun lovers infuriate me. You are the people who lose children becuase you couldn't bear to be without a glock or a 45 and your children blow their brains out becuase you needed to be packing. What a joke. You people are dangerous and scary.

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Have you ever seen any of the documentaries about child death by fire arms? The cause of the children's death was due to lack of knowledge and stupid parents who leave guns out were children can get them.

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Actually, the cause of death was from a child pulling the trigger on their parents gun. Plain and simple. If the gun hadn't been there, the child would have lived. I wonder if any of those parents still support guns?

[pvn]

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There is no reason at all why a 23 year old student would need a Glock. A hunting rifle? Sure. A glock? Why?

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Nobody has to justify anything to you, thankfully.

There's no reason at all that you would need a computer. You're just going to download dirty pictures. A book (approved by the ideologicaly purity commission, of course)? Sure. A computer, with access to who-knows-what information out in the "wild west"? Why???