Small stakes, live tipping advice?

[Brad1970]

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Earlier this week:


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I'd settle for $30/hour

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Today:

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my standard numbers in a middle of the road AC house:
$19/hr + $5/hr base * 7 hr day = $168/day


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I know its eaisier to support your argument if you are allowed to change your mind on the facts whenever it helps your argument, but please try not to do it in the same thread. It just makes it too easy.

Dealers in California blow away your numbers.

If your numbers were correct, you would be in strong favor of the house raking 1 dollar a pot and distributing the money to the dealers.

This would keep the fish from giving away a ton of money to the dealers and keep it in play so it can go where it belongs. In my pocket.

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Maybe I'm a bit confused here & I didn't read every post in this thread, but when he says that he'd settle for $30 an hr, he's saying that he makes less than that. By my calculations, $19 + $5 = $24/hr...which is less than $30.

Tell me again how he is changing his argument???

[Gonso]

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Maybe I'm a bit confused here & I didn't read every post in this thread, but when he says that he'd settle for $30 an hr, he's saying that he makes less than that. By my calculations, $19 + $5 = $24/hr...which is less than $30.

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This is correct. He knows full well what I wrote, of course, but he's looking for some kind of big contradiction or something to rescue him here.

[Packard]

I dont like tipping morbidly obese dealers. I just know that if I give them a tip, they will blow it all on a 12 pack of doughnuts right after their shift, hurredly stuffing sugar and fat creme into their faces with chocolate dripping from their 6 chins.

[jjshabado]

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To me this is not a personal issue, it’s a moral one. The moral necessity for someone to earn what the keep is something I consider to be among the highest virtues of man. This forum is not really the appropriate venue to discuss morality, for a full explanation, please see any of the philosophical works of Ayn Rand.

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You're a [censored], morality is relative. You speak as if you have some sort of principled belief that everybody should earn what they get. Guess what, the dealers do. The problem is that you believe everybody should earn their keep based on your personal values. Which seems to be purely education and training. In reality, the dealers earn their keep based on the collective morality of our society. Which is an important principle in Capitalism.

See, here's the truth. If dealer's were really 'overpaid' there would be a large group of people that wanted to be dealers for less money. (Note, just because there's a large supply of people wanting to be dealers at current wages, doesn't mean they're overpaid). If casinos felt this they would start instituting policies like dealer's giving half their tips to the casino, paying dealers no base pay and making them live off of tips, making them pay an hourly rate to deal and letting them keep all of their tipos, etc. etc.

Why don't they do this? I can think of two reasons off the top of my head:
- It would piss off most customers
- They'd lose a lot of high quality dealers

So the fact that dealers make what they do, means they're earning their keep based on our societal values. If you feel they're overpaid, you have the always fun option of becoming a dealer. But you clearly don't believe they're that overpaid, so...

[Gonso]

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I dont like tipping morbidly obese dealers. I just know that if I give them a tip, they will blow it all on a 12 pack of doughnuts right after their shift, hurredly stuffing sugar and fat creme into their faces with chocolate dripping from their 6 chins.

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LOL this is awesome

[leykis]

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I'd settle for $30/hour, I don't see anything close to $50/hour

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Sorry, I omitted the second part of the quote last time. As written, this clearly implies somewhere between $30 and $50 per hour.

Regardless- Since I have been told I "don't have a clue" by two dealers now, I decided to check my premises.

Played a live 8-16 6hr session today that was hand shuffled. Dealers dealt 30min downs. Here is the money that left the table in tokes.

Dealer 1 - $29
Dealer 2 - $31
Dealer 3 - $26
Dealer 4 - $33
Dealer 5 - $31
Dealer 6 - $28
Dealer 7 - $35
Dealer 8 - $25
Dealer 9 - $30
Dealer 10 - $27
Dealer 11 - $25 poor guy
Dealer 12 - $31

Total= $351 in 6hrs or $58.5/hr

This game was played with $2 chips. Most people were tipping $2 per pot if the action got past the flop. I was tipping $1 per pot if the action got past the flop.

The table was 9 handed. Clearly 9 of us at the table chose the wrong seat. The dealer was crushing the game for 3.66BB/hr. If the dealers could fix the leak in their game by adding a shuffle master, I guess they could make some real money.


Despite what you may think, I have no ill will towards dealers. In addition to reasons that I previously stated, this type of money drain will kill any game. The losers will lose much faster, attribute their losses to bad luck, and never realize where their money went.

[leykis]

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You're a [censored], morality is relative.

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I stopped reading after your first statment beacuse I felt it would betray the spirit of your post to read on. You see, if you are a relativist, you would hold that all views on morality are equally valid. So promoting your own opinion would be hipocritical. Hence, I didn't need to read any further.

[Brokeski]

i was interested on how much dealers made as well so last night when i threw a party at the casino me and my friend who deals poker calcuated how much money he made. He worked 9 hours, dealing either the tourney that was going on or one of the 3/6 cash games going on at min wage. He made 130 dollars in tips. That is not quite 15 dollars an hour in tips, and that is on the most crowded night at the casino.

plus, im not sure if 8/16 are the kind of small stakes we are talking about. I would gess the limit is drawn at 5/10 but mostly just talking about 2/4 through 4/8 and like 1/2 and 2/5 NL

[Gonso]

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Sorry, I omitted the second part of the quote last time. As written, this clearly implies somewhere between $30 and $50 per hour.

Regardless-

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No, not "regardless." You tried to misrepresent what I said and got called on it, period. The only thing implied is that I make less than $30 an hour.

Second, no, you still don't have a clue. The tips you supposedly counted-

-and I say "supposedly" for two reasons: first, because the numbers are a certainly somewhat higher than I see on an average down and second, because you've been kind of a weasal in the way you try to twist people's words around-

-the tips you supposedly counted don't account for several other factors:

1) The limits you were playing at tend to tip a little better than some of the lower limits.

2) You didn't account for forced early outs.

3) You didn't account for dead spreads.

4) You didn't account for mandatory breaks.

5) You didn't account for tournaments, which pay less.

So, even IF your count was honest, you've still overstated your numbers by a wide margin. Did you do that intentionally, or is this just more ignorance on your part?

[jjshabado]

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You're a [censored], morality is relative.

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I stopped reading after your first statment beacuse I felt it would betray the spirit of your post to read on. You see, if you are a relativist, you would hold that all views on morality are equally valid. So promoting your own opinion would be hipocritical. Hence, I didn't need to read any further.

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I'm not really surprised, you seem to live in your own little philosophical world and probably don't want to risk reading opinions that could bring that world crashing down. Of course by making only a snarky comment about the start of it you can try and save face and avoid commenting on the actual content of the post.

If you had read further (which I know you did, you just couldn't think of anything intelligent to say about it) you'll see that I wasn't advancing any particular moral view, but commenting that the collective view of society is what determines dealer's tokes.