If you know they both have AAxx, you should call with...?

[jsnipes28]

Sweating a 25/50 PLO game on Stars last night and saw this hand. 100bb effective stacks.

UTG opens 150, UTG+1 calls, CO repots, BN coldcalls, UTG calls, UTG+1 re-repots, CO shoves, BN calls shove, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls shove.

Based on that action I thought it was obv UTG+1 had AAxx and at least one other person did as well (most likely CO).

When the hand went to showdown, it was AAxx, AAxx and QT92 (who won incidentally).

Imeediately, I was like wtf these games are crazy. But I went to twodimes.net and plugged in the equities of the exact hands and QT92 had like 45% equity in the pot.

So, after a lengthy introduction, if you know that both opponents have AAxx what is the worst hand you can overshove/call shove with that will show a profit (assuming 100bb stacks)?

[Bavid Denyamine]

I am usually pretty nitty in a scenario like this, so I'm probably only getting my stack in with a connected hand that doesn't need an ace to make a straight. If I had like 8765, I'd be tempted to get it in there, if suited even moreso. I'd mainly be looking for hands like that, though.

I think those twodimes stats may be deceiving, because the equity of AAxx is lowered a lot by the fact that a high % of pots will be split. But even the most naked aces are a coinflip to a junky hand like QT92, so I'm not sure I have a conclusive answer here.

In reality, there's probably a lot of hands you can justify this with, but it's hard to assume that you know for sure both players have AAxx, which is why I'd want a less vulnerable hand like 8765.

[spino1i]

The problem is its very hard to know they both have AAxx, just because the chances of this are very small and some times people are aggro preflop with some strange hands. I think its a very risky proposition to call with hands like QT92..

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is its very hard to know they both have AAxx, just because the chances of this are very small and some times people are aggro preflop with some strange hands. I think its a very risky proposition to call with hands like QT92..

[/ QUOTE ]

Aye, I had a HILARIOUS one before.
I had AA, raise preflop, get reraised, 3rd guy doesn't fold figuring us both for aces.
Turns over my AA vs KK vs KK. lawl. I won obv.

You get it wrong as often as you get it right, but if you are certain they both have AA, then pretty much any 4 reasonably connected cards are favourite. Like QT97 or 3468.

[2handed]

what if there is a pair in your hand? go to town with 8856 or 9986? suits i would imagine are somewhat less important with these hands since a good bit of the time your flush draw will be dead.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
what if there is a pair in your hand? go to town with 8856 or 9986? suits i would imagine are somewhat less important with these hands since a good bit of the time your flush draw will be dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pairs are horrible, the worst thing to take against a higher pair is a smaller pair. 4 different cards play much better.

Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac Ad Ah 287950 57.59 212050 42.41 0 0.00 0.576
Ks Qc Qd Kh 212050 42.41 287950 57.59 0 0.00 0.424

Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac Ad Ah 245228 49.05 254772 50.95 0 0.00 0.490
6s 8c 9d 7h 254772 50.95 245228 49.05 0 0.00 0.510

You should especially shy away from other high cards that make less straights because of the aces being out and focus on shoving middling cards. Basically anything that doesn't need an ace to hit to make a straight, T9 or lower.

[Cezar]

Spino1i is right, the real problem is knowing for sure that two of them have aces. With that in mind, you should probably get it in with good medium rundowns.

If you're absolutely certain they have aces, then a very wide range is profitable. Actually, any 4 different cards gives you enough chance to make two pair or trips to be +EV. If you're a variance junkie, you can get it in with two pairs as well. The only hands you should fold here are single pairs, so 7789 and the like belong in the muck.

[wazz]

http://totalbluff.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21745

[TheRempel]

Wow. That forum has more retards than this one.

[Bavid Denyamine]

Do people even read what I say before posting the same thing three times? Jeesh.