What would you do about Virginia Tech?

[Huh?]

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Ban guns, make having guns illegal, buy back guns from community as an amnesty = remove all legal guns. Then on in anyone with a gun is breaking the law. How is this harder in the US than Britain?

Oh right, corrupt politicians taking NRA campaign funds. Of course, i forgot that.

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Believe it or not, there is a substantial portion of the US citizenry that are dead set against more gun control laws, along with the NRA and some politicians.

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banning all guns is pointless...unless you can click your heels and magically make all guns and their entire existence disappear your not going to get rid of them..and besides then we'de have guys attacking with samuri swords and [censored].

The only thing that should be banned are miltary type weapons...assualt rifles, automatic weapons etc.

[onthebutton]

For all of the "gun ban" people here, start being realistic. This will NEVER happen, and you know it.

[NCAces]

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Giving students the ability to carry firearms on and around school campus is just about the dumbest idea ever proposed.

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"Let's make tons of ineffectual laws that restrain the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns while doing nothing to affect criminals owning guns." is dumber, and if not, it's a close second.

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Yes...americans are severly oppressed when it comes to their ability to own and carry guns lol.

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We are. At least here in CA. I own a handgun. Here's how I may use my handgun:

1. I can carry around my loaded pistol in my house.
2. I cannot discharge my weapon on my small property
3. If I go to the range it must be stored in a locked container with ammo stored separately
4. I cannot carry a concealed weapon under any circumstance

Which part isn't limiting? To be honest, my handgun is more for sport than defense since I can't take it anywhere.

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Yes your limited...I live in CA too. But the first two make perfect sense. But being legally able to take guns to frat parties college dorms, your cubicle, etc is more likely to cost lives than it is to save them.

Especially when you consider the number of people who own guns but when put in a stressful situation that calls for them to use it...would fail miserably.

if a student had been in Virginia Tech class when the [censored] hit the fan and was carrying...3 things would have probably happened.

1. He would have fired his weapon in the general direction of the gunman and most likely missed or wounded him.

2. He would have been gunned down while trying to do the above.

3. He would have tried to do the above but due to the environment and his only having ever shot the gun at a gun range...he would have missed, possibly wounded or killed students nearby and probably would have been gunned down himself in the process.

Guns aren't the cause for school shootings...and arming more people isn't a solution to stopping them

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Your post would have been far better had it started with "I believe" rather than positing this as fact.

1. I assure you that you can't find any proof for your idea that less guns means less crime. If you can, let us in on it.

2. Who says your scenario regarding a gun owner would have turned out that way? Do you have any proof of it? Because I can cite you to all sorts of reports of gun owners blowing away the bad guys, including some in a school setting.

It seems to me that you are afraid of guns and that you have no idea what you are talking about when you fantasize as to what would have happened. But, I am willing to be shown that I am wrong.

NCAces

[UATrewqaz]

Well we banned certain drugs and online poker and nobody does those things at all anymore....

[HeavilyArmed]

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I think that it is obvious that these types of shootings could be limited if guns were banned or more tightly controlled in the U.S. This kind of stuff doesn't happen in England or Europe, and I'm sure there are plenty of crazy people there.

And yes obviously people can still build truck bombs, or fly airplanes into buildings, personally though I would say I would feel safer if guns were outlawed or restricted more.

However, this is not going to happen. These school or workplace shootings happen pretty rarely, so to be honest I don't spend much time thinking about them. I think gun use in normal run of the mill crime use is more distressing.

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How soon you forget the horror of Breslan? Did that happen in a place that tightly controlled firearms?

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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The 'real' europeans don't count Russia as a peer.

[ShakeZula06]

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So, you really want to live in the "wild west" where everyone is packing a gun? Jeez, people aren't careful with their cars, much less everyone with a freakin handgun!

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You make it sound like the wild west was actually wild.
An American Experiment in Anarcho-Capitalism: The Not So Wild, Wild West
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These histories describe the era and area as characterized by gunfights, horse-thievery, and general disrespect for basic human rights. The taste for the dramatic in literature and other entertainment forms has led to concentration on the seeming disparity between the westerners’ desire for order and the prevailing disorder. If the Hollywood image of the West were not enough so taint our view, scholars of violence contributed with quotes such as the following: “We can report with some assurance that compared to frontier days there has been a significant decrease in crimes of violence in the United States.”[11]

Recently, however, more careful examinations of the conditions that existed cause one to doubt the accuracy of this perception. In his book, Frontier Violence. Another Look, W. Eugene Hollon stated that the believed “that the Western frontier was a far more civilized, more peaceful, and safer place than American society is today.” [12] The legend of the “wild, wild West” lives on despite Robert Dykstra’s finding that in five of the major cattle towns (Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell) for the years from 1870 to 1885, only 45 homicides were reported—an average of 1.5 per cattle-trading season.’[13] In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, “nobody was killed in 1869 or 1870. In fact, nobody was killed until the advent of officers of the law, employed to prevent killings.” [14] Only two towns, Ellsworth in 1873 and Dodge City in 1876, ever had five killings in any one year. [15] Frank Prassel states in his book subtitled “A Legacy of Law and Order,” that “if any conclusion can he drawn from recent crime statistics, is must be that this last frontier left no significant heritage of offenses against the person, relative to other sections of the country.”


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[onthebutton]

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Ban guns, make having guns illegal, buy back guns from community as an amnesty = remove all legal guns. Then on in anyone with a gun is breaking the law. How is this harder in the US than Britain?

Oh right, corrupt politicians taking NRA campaign funds. Of course, i forgot that.

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Believe it or not, there is a substantial portion of the US citizenry that are dead set against more gun control laws, along with the NRA and some politicians.

[/ QUOTE ]

banning all guns is pointless...unless you can click your heels and magically make all guns and their entire existence disappear your not going to get rid of them..and besides then we'de have guys attacking with samuri swords and [censored].

The only thing that should be banned are miltary type weapons...assualt rifles, automatic weapons etc.

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Then why are you discussing this regarding what happened today? Early reports indicate he used handguns. This has nothing to do with assault rifles, etc.

[HeavilyArmed]

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How would this story be changed if a gun-toting responsible student put an end to the gunman's life?

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Bingo. And it's not like it's never happened before.

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This very thing occured inside three years and the gunman was taken out by an armed student. That fact was almost universally ignored by the media. But there's no real anti-gun bias....

[Huh?]

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Giving students the ability to carry firearms on and around school campus is just about the dumbest idea ever proposed.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Let's make tons of ineffectual laws that restrain the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns while doing nothing to affect criminals owning guns." is dumber, and if not, it's a close second.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...americans are severly oppressed when it comes to their ability to own and carry guns lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are. At least here in CA. I own a handgun. Here's how I may use my handgun:

1. I can carry around my loaded pistol in my house.
2. I cannot discharge my weapon on my small property
3. If I go to the range it must be stored in a locked container with ammo stored separately
4. I cannot carry a concealed weapon under any circumstance

Which part isn't limiting? To be honest, my handgun is more for sport than defense since I can't take it anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes your limited...I live in CA too. But the first two make perfect sense. But being legally able to take guns to frat parties college dorms, your cubicle, etc is more likely to cost lives than it is to save them.

Especially when you consider the number of people who own guns but when put in a stressful situation that calls for them to use it...would fail miserably.

if a student had been in Virginia Tech class when the [censored] hit the fan and was carrying...3 things would have probably happened.

1. He would have fired his weapon in the general direction of the gunman and most likely missed or wounded him.

2. He would have been gunned down while trying to do the above.

3. He would have tried to do the above but due to the environment and his only having ever shot the gun at a gun range...he would have missed, possibly wounded or killed students nearby and probably would have been gunned down himself in the process.

Guns aren't the cause for school shootings...and arming more people isn't a solution to stopping them

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post would have been far better had it started with "I believe" rather than positing this as fact.

1. I assure you that you can't find any proof for your idea that less guns means less crime. If you can, let us in on it.

2. Who says your scenario regarding a gun owner would have turned out that way? Do you have any proof of it? Because I can cite you to all sorts of reports of gun owners blowing away the bad guys, including some in a school setting.

It seems to me that you are afraid of guns and that you have no idea what you are talking about when you fantasize as to what would have happened. But, I am willing to be shown that I am wrong.

NCAces

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Yes I'm terrified of guns..that why I own 3 shotguns, 2 rifles, and 2 handguns. I'm trying to overcome my fear by touching them and being near them. ha

Did I state that what I wrote was fact...hmmm I assume everyone has a high enough I.Q. on this board to know that when someone posts something, it is almost always their opinion they are posting...but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm sure your right about those news stories you heard being typical of your average ahnd gun owner.

Most people, when placed in a chaotic siutation with bullets ripping by, and having only fired their handgun at the range or at immovable targets, most hunters I know use rifles or bow and arrow, react much the same as your average delta force member or Jack Bauer.
Shot to the head...lights out...no casualties suffered besides the target.

[HeavilyArmed]

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In Britain we had the Dunblane massacre.

We banned all handguns, and highly restricted access to all other guns.

We have had no school shootings since.

Gun control works. Sure the bad guys can get guns if they *really* want to. Im sure i can get a handgun here in Manchester in only 4 degrees of seperation at most.

BUT it does limit these types of attacks, it stops husbands getting pissed off and killing their wives, its limits gun crime massively.

Again - banning guns is 100% a good and logical solution

This is NOT the wild west. And things dont happen like in the films you seem to enjoy.

Ban all guns, or accept school shootings as a normal part of life. That is litterally your choice.

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The UK is a much smaller country with far less people, and saying we haven't had a school shooting in X amount of times is probably a combination of variance and a smaller control.

How about:

Public shootings in the European Union vs public shootings in the United States.

That would be a more effective comparison.

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With very few guns, UK citizens must resort to bombing the tube.