Shorthanded Stud/8, Only Low Card Completes Bring-In

[PokrLikeItsProse]

One reason that I shy away from short-handed stud/8 is that I don't know what I should do in this spot, where the bring-in has the only low card and completes the bring-in and he seems to do always do that in this spot, or at least he has the last 4-5 times. This is a play that I don't make.

Since there are fewer antes in the pot, you have worse odds to defend against this play than if it were a full table. So it seems like you should play fewer hands than if this were to happen at a full table (if you had the same number of people behind you left to act) . (But it is much less likely to happen at a full table and, if it were, the cards that are out would likely greatly impact your hand.)

Any thoughts on this short-handed situation? How often should you be reraising on third street?

[SweetLuckyMe]

How often you reraise the bringin will depend on a lot of things. The biggest factor will be what position you're in (if anyone is left behind you and what others have done before you). It'll also depend on what you feel the range of hands is for the bringin. Generally, if the bringin completes short-handed (4 or less) it's a decent hand, but not a great hand. Razzy lows like 275 and small pairs small kicker like 335 and the sort. Although this can change depending on how the bringin views the others at the table - if he's sick of getting his bringin raised by a maniac every time he'll often complete full with any playable hand - I'll sometimes do this myself if I think lesser hands will call and better hands won't re-raise (i.e. table full of weak, fishy, calling stations). The biggest reason for the reraise is to retake control of the hand to where you force them to catch good to feel good about continuing. You'll have the playing advantage from 4th on so long as they don't catch good and you catch bad. If you both catch bad then you're in reasonably better shape than they are from the standpoint of hand playability.

As a general rule of thumb, if it's short-handed I'll give these bringin completers credit for a ragged 3low and act accordingly. If they're solid (although generally the "solid" players don't complete the bringin for various reasons) I'll be a bit more carefull, but usually if I'm last to act and I feel I have more equity than their likely hand I'll re-raise. I rarely call if it's heads up - unless they can't fold and are destined to get to the river regardless. If they complete with a 4 up and I have any pair bigger than their upcard I'll certainly reraise. I'll also reraise with just about any 3 card low with an ace - any low 3straight with a couple of overcards like 567 and some other hands where I feel I've got good early equity. Basically, run a bunch of sims on 2dimes and see where you're in good shape against their likely hands and act accordingly. Don't always fear they've got a monster hand and shy away simply because the antes aren't huge.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

I think you misunderstood. I am talking about the times when the bring-in has the only door card eight or lower (usually lower) and completes the bring-in, so I have a 9, T, J, Q, or K showing, and so does everyone else except the bring-in. He seems to do this every time he has the only low card out, so his range might be two random hole cards. Such a player is often aggressive on later streets and will semi-bluff and pure-bluff with scary-looking boards. If I raise him, I suspect he is capable of a three-bet bluff or semibluff on third street.

This scenario is more frustrating at tournament final tables with rising antes and bet sizes.

It feels like I should just keep folding as normal and only play the hands that I would against a normal completion, but I'm curious if anyone else loosens up here.

[2461Badugi]

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It feels like I should just keep folding as normal and only play the hands that I would against a normal completion

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Yup.

[Micturition Man]

I just give them credit for any random low hand and play accordingly.

Just reraise with any overpair or maybe 3str/3flush.

I guess from the tone of your post you are considering throwing away overpairs here because the pot is so small?

In my opinion this is mistake, mainly because your opponent is very likely to have a razz hand, and also he can have a small pair or a 3 flush/2low.

[Micturition Man]

Definitely don't loosen up.

The thing to remember is that your opponent is getting bad odds on the open-complete.

So if he is doing this with garbage hands (like 2 low + a brick) it is very likely -EV. He will run into an overpair often enough.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

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Just reraise with any overpair or maybe 3str/3flush.

I guess from the tone of your post you are considering throwing away overpairs here because the pot is so small?


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No, my main concern is if/how I should play a 3-straight or 3-flush. Those are hands that I often dump at a full table, probably a bit more than I should. Is a hand like (QT)9 worth playing? That's a hand that I probably never play.

[SweetLuckyMe]

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I think you misunderstood. I am talking about the times when the bring-in has the only door card eight or lower (usually lower) and completes the bring-in, so I have a 9, T, J, Q, or K showing, and so does everyone else except the bring-in.

[/ QUOTE ] In this situation you want to reraise (punish) him with any pair. If he does it *every* or virtually every time he has the only low card up, then consider opening up a bit - raising with any pair bigger than his upcard, but only calling with playable hands like a 3 flush or overcard 3 straight. If you're not comfortable that you play poker better than he does from 4th on then don't play anything against them than the overpairs to his door card. When I choose to play non-paired hands against this type I like to keep the pot small until he blanks, then punish him when he does. If he catches what appears to be favorable, then slow down a bit, but you've got to punish the donk for overplaying junk, and you do that by keeping the pressure on when he appears to catch unfavorable. You simply have to play poker well. I feel that simply folding every time I don't have an overpair to his doorcard is giving up too much against this type. They'll generally get into low draw chase mode and punishing that type with even modest high hands is a favorable position to be in.

[Andy B]

I don't play QT9 or QJT or KQJ either. Ever.

[Wetdog]

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I don't play QT9 or QJT or KQJ either. Ever.

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Even in a shorthanded game?