***Official 2007 Philadelphia Phillies Thread***

[Spellmen]

Also on CN8 in State College, you should definitely get it if you have comcast cable

[Needle77]

Thanks, its channel 2 here. Ugh, no idea how i didn't find it earlier.

[kylephilly]

2-7 we's be in trubble

[James282]

Weird, I thought the Phillies were so much better after they took the boring and lazy Bobby Abreu out of the middle of the lineup.

James

[Sluss]

[ QUOTE ]
Weird, I thought the Phillies were so much better after they took the boring and lazy Bobby Abreu out of the middle of the lineup.

James

[/ QUOTE ]Meh, I know your just trolling, but even having Abreu wouldn't make that big of a difference. The Phils are still scoring enough runs (4.3 a game).

If anything they tried to use the Abreu trade to help tham get some young bullpen arms that have not worked out. Also when your three best hitters are all lefthanded and bat right in a row you are very vunerable in the late innings. The problems with this team are still in the bullpen and with the managing.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Weird, I thought the Phillies were so much better after they took the boring and lazy Bobby Abreu out of the middle of the lineup.

James

[/ QUOTE ]Meh, I know your just trolling, but even having Abreu wouldn't make that big of a difference. The Phils are still scoring enough runs (4.3 a game).

If anything they tried to use the Abreu trade to help tham get some young bullpen arms that have not worked out. Also when your three best hitters are all lefthanded and bat right in a row you are very vunerable in the late innings. The problems with this team are still in the bullpen and with the managing.

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously the bullpen is the biggest problem but you don't trade one of the best players in the league for some prospect 'bullpen arms' when your replacement player is the flyin' hawaiian. It doesn't matter where you make up your run difference - be it from your right fielder or your bullpen - so long as you are scoring more than your opponents. The Abreu trade was laughably bad and totally inexcusable for a team that believes they can contend. They could have gotten soooooo much more and simply chose not to so they wouldn't have to pay him.

James

[Sluss]

No, if your a quality orginization you use that money to go out and spend on what you need (bullpen help, right handed power) or locking up your MVP 1st baseman. Which of course they did neither.

[.Alex.]

[ QUOTE ]

obviously the bullpen is the biggest problem but you don't trade one of the best players in the league for some prospect 'bullpen arms' when your replacement player is the flyin' hawaiian. It doesn't matter where you make up your run difference - be it from your right fielder or your bullpen - so long as you are scoring more than your opponents. The Abreu trade was laughably bad and totally inexcusable for a team that believes they can contend. They could have gotten soooooo much more and simply chose not to so they wouldn't have to pay him.

James

[/ QUOTE ]
That's the key. They traded Abreu at a time when they did not believe the would be contending for a few years and were just trying to free up some money. Gillick even gave the famous quote that he didn't think they'd be in the playoff hunt until 2008. Then after the trade, Howard and Utley went on fire, the team came together and nearly made the playoffs, which completely changed the plan for this year. If Gillick had to go back in time, I doubt he makes that trade.

Having said that, Victorino isn't nearly as big of a downgrade from Abreu as you make it seem.

[Hoya]

He is a pretty big downgrade, but Victorino should be in CF, with Abreu in RF. The trade was clearly terrible.

Still, he's gone, and there isn't really a point in arguing about it anymore. Gotta make do with what he have at this point.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]


Having said that, Victorino isn't nearly as big of a downgrade from Abreu as you make it seem.

[/ QUOTE ]

what are you, crazy? Abreu is soooooooooo much more valuable than victorino as a right fielder. A lot of Victorino's plausible value comes from the fact that he could play center effectively. Since they have Rowand in center and Victorino is in right he can't have as big a defensive impact. Abreu had a .920 ops in new york against a very touch AL east in 240 PA and an .860 ops in Philly in 540 pa or so. Victorino had a .760 ops and isn't that big an upgrade in the field. It's a huge difference. Not to mention that Abreu had a .420 OBP last year. Wait, am I really trying to make a case that Abreu is a huge upgrade over Shane Victorino!?

James