Cheating in sports

[Clarkmeister]

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Baseball tacitly approved of steroids. By baseball, I mean the commissioners office, the players union, and ownership. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that it's all good. Evidence suggests that 30-50% of players were on some sort of enhancer, so it was a reasonably level playing field. Bonds = best player ever.

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30% to 50% does not equal a level playing field.
And what evidence are you privy to that you got that statistic from???

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It's painfully obvious.

Going from memory, but recall that both Caminiti and Canseco both came forth about 6 or so years ago, both claimed about 50+% steroid use, and both were laughed at. Subsequent evidence has suggested everything both said is true.

Worse, when MLB did their test of performance enhancers prior to IIRC the 2003? season, everyone KNEW the tests were coming, yet the number of positives was about SEVEN FREAKING PERCENT!! That's a massive number considering how poor testing is, how many illegal substances aren't detectable, and that the players knew it was coming.

50% may well be conservative.

Regardless, everyone, players, ownership, management knew it was going on and all were cool with it and fought to have it discussed, changed or addressed. OK with them, ok with me. Not our job to do what no one in the game was willing to do at the time.

[g-bebe]

No proof is a little less than what it is: he's been documented as failing amphetamine tests.

I'm sure a lot of players take them, including some of the best players, but I'm also sure some of the best players don't take them. Why hasn't anyone questioned whether A-Rod takes them? In my mind, the guy is more of a complete player than Bonds, regardless of who is "the best" between the two -- once A-Rod's career is as Bond's stage, we'll be able to say with clarity who was better.

Obviously, we're giving Bonds all the attention because he's threatening to break the most sacred record in all of professional sports. But I still think all the players who've taken them should be treated the same way.

[Shadowrun]

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Oh Cmon.

You're basically saying Bonds did all of this horrible stuff with no proof yourself, and saying he was like the only one who did it, and now you are questioning Clark for proof?

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On Barry Bonds:
Greg Anderson + BALCO

What Bonds said to the Grand Jury

"Bonds allegedly said Anderson gave him a rubbing balm and a liquid substance that Anderson said was arthritis cream and flaxseed oil, respectively."

In August 2005, all four defendants in the BALCO steroid scandal trial, including Anderson, struck deals with federal prosecutors that did not require them to reveal names of athletes who may have used banned drugs.

Game of Shadows

Perjury Investigation

How about this?

On January 11, 2007, the New York Daily News reported that Bonds had failed a test for amphetamines during the 2006 season. aka Mark Sweeny gave them to me lol.

(this is just what is public)

[Clarkmeister]

It's all easier once you just don't care about the reports.

[mo42nyy]

here is my problem with steroids:
I dont care if a grown adult wants to drink a bottle of bleach- its his life and his decision.
However players who take steroids to get better are risking there life and health. It is unfair to the other players that they have to either:
1)Watch other players they are better than take steroids and take their jobs
2)Take them as well, risking their own health

[mo42nyy]

Bonds took steroids the last few years of his career. But to say he isnt an all time great is crazy. He is the best position player since Mays.

[GuyIncognito]

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here is my problem with steroids:
I dont care if a grown adult wants to drink a bottle of bleach- its his life and his decision.
However players who take steroids to get better are risking there life and health. It is unfair to the other players that they have to either:
1)Watch other players they are better than take steroids and take their jobs
2)Take them as well, risking their own health

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This is quite true. However, athletes play through injuries and other ailments that threaten their long-term health all the time -- gimpy joints, concussions, etc. So I don't know where we are supposed to draw the line between health risks that are acceptable and those that aren't.

[tdarko]

g-bebe.

Thayer said :

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Bonds has basically been the best player in baseball every single year of his career. When everyone around him started using steroids, he probably thought to himself "This is complete bull [censored], I am so much better than these guys, and they are getting all of these accolades as being awesome, what a crock."

So then he started using steroids(LIKE EVERYONE ELSE) and proceeded to produce unfathomable numbers which were truly historic and far better than anyone of his era.

So basically :

Pre-Steroids Era - Bonds was the best
Steroids Era - Bonds was the best

To say he is only great because of steroids is just ignorance.

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This is a good post b/c it is true.

We don't know when Barry did steroids first of all, some say it was late in his career. Worst case scenario is what that Game of Shadows came out saying which was what after the 99' season right? Ok, well that would mean he has been dirty for a long time but just for argument sake lets assume its true and look at his numbers from 86-99--the "clean years" so to speak.

445 HR's
460 SB's
3 MVP's
8 Gold Glove's
7 Silver Slugger's

It must be noted that in 1998 Bonds became the first player in MLB history to 400 home runs and 400 stolen bases, so it isn't a 400/400 club b/c he is the only one in it. That year was the year of the home run in which every ball hit went out of the yard, it was the Mac and Sammy chase and Barry was basically forgotten that year despite putting up great numbers again. This could be a reason for steroids? We all know that steroid use didn't start when Barry started using them, I mean lol @ the people that think that. Steroids have been around for decades and if anything Barry was just trying to keep up with the McGwire's and the Sosa's that were stealing America's hearts. Brady Anderson anyone?

If Bonds retires after his first 14 years in the league he is arguably a top 5 player ever with his ability to hit for power, run and play defense (possibly the greatest LF of all-time). Then, just like Thayer says, the boom happens and Barry does what he needs to to keep up.

Either way you look at it, Barry was ahead of the pack when he was clean and he has been ahead of the pack in the years we assume he is dirty as well--I say assume b/c we are just guessing when he started, but in my argument I went with the worst case scenario.

[THAY3R]

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here is my problem with steroids:
I dont care if a grown adult wants to drink a bottle of bleach- its his life and his decision.
However players who take steroids to get better are risking there life and health. It is unfair to the other players that they have to either:
1)Watch other players they are better than take steroids and take their jobs
2)Take them as well, risking their own health

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Mo,

I'd be very interested in your opinion of the coal mining industry.

[g-bebe]

I'm not saying Bonds wasn't a good player. It just doesn't make sense to me that he needs to take drugs to enhance his performance when he's already considered the best player alive by many. He certainly wasn't the first one to use drugs, and he was still one of the best without. So why take them?