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#21
03-15-2007, 07:43 PM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
[ QUOTE ]
I've read all the stoving and stuff but getting AI with at most 10 outs and villain likely having a redraw against it just sucks IMO. I do agree that this is a c/r ai or bet/3bet or c/f though. c/c is terrible. [/ QUOTE ] I have 17 clean + dirty outs. 
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#22
03-15-2007, 08:47 PM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
You do not have nearly 17 outs... You get paid off here ONLY when villain has Ad, so c/c isn't really good either. You have a [censored] draw, so pushing here is really bad. Everyone in this thread has said so, including several good players, but you just refuse to accept it.
NH.. :|
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#23
03-15-2007, 09:18 PM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
Sorry for coming off as stubborn. I just find it interesting that everyone immediatley wants to fold with an overlay in the pot and a stove that shows almost a coinflip.
And as far as good posters responses, it is pretty close between c/f, c/c. Anyway, thanks for the responses. Results: <font color="white">Villain has AcAh and pwns me. </font>
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#24
03-17-2007, 05:13 AM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
Yea the thing is this 18/13 dude is obviously a tight/aggressive player, and although you do have a fair share of equity against his range, shoving isn't the highest ev play IMO.
I say c/c vs unknown because its more likely an unknown will pay you off with more of his range. But since we know that he's probably a fairly standard opponent, look at it from his perspective. It's fairly obvious that he's got an overpair here or AK, so your checkraise really is the worst possible line to take. If you want to get it in here (trust me you don't), b/3b is much much better because of the fold equity that you force on him, instead of being the one forced to call his shove. It also gives you the chance to show two instances of postflop strength. If you had bet 15ish or so into this pot and he raised it to 45 and you shoved, you could potentially fold out AA if he doesnt have a diamond/is a nit. Your outs here are rarely clean after the checkraise, and c/f is typically the best idea in a spot like this.
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#25
03-17-2007, 05:19 AM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
I'm not sure I like getting so much in against a nit. Your flush draw outs may be dead. I probably just call the flop and can get away from it if he bets pot on the turn. Maybe you can get a free card on the turn.
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#26
03-17-2007, 05:26 AM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
You have 3 4's, 3 9's, 2 diamonds and 2 5's if we want to be optomistic. I wouldn't count the rest of the diamounds as outs. If we want to be pessimistic, you could have two outs plus runner runner boat. I just don't like it at all in this spot when you say villan's range is so narrow. I actually don't even know if I like calling here.
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#28
03-17-2007, 06:51 AM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
Just bend the pieces til they fit
Like they were made for it But, they weren't meant for this Chasin' the ghost of a good thing Haunting yourself as the real thing It's getting away, away, away, away from you again your draw is not as good as it looks (it never is)
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#29
03-17-2007, 08:11 AM
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Re: Huge draw 160BB deep
[ QUOTE ]
Just bend the pieces til they fit Like they were made for it But, they weren't meant for this Chasin' the ghost of a good thing Haunting yourself as the real thing It's getting away, away, away, away from you again your draw is not as good as it looks (it never is) [/ QUOTE ] this is awesome
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