The final word on Vig: the truth

[ChrisV]

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yeah I'm just going to assume all of the i-knew-it-but-didnt-say-anythings were in on it with vig until they give one decent reason why they didn't PM a mod

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Meh. Everyone, me included, is basically resulting. The way I remember it was that I was a little skeptical. The majority of the time though it turns out fine and I just forget my skepticism.

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Hindsight bias, sometimes called the I-knew-it-all-along effect, is the inclination to see past events as being predictable and reasonable to expect, perhaps because they are more available than possible outcomes which did not occur. Subjects also tend to remember their own future predictions as being more accurate than they were after the fact.

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[Jiggymike]

First off, I should note that I have only been arguing with Shaniac in defense of Gild; you make a lot of good points but I still think you are being too hard. I mean, he accepted responsibility that he screwed up but good people make incorrect decisions and he didn't have much help, considering how people are NOW telling us how they knew it was a scam.

Personally, I did not know or think it was anything less than the truth because I am a trusting person. However, I remember in one of the recent Vig threads, someone found a psychology post about how Vig had met a girl in August of last year and then talked about how "HIS" baby was walking in December of the same year. SOOOO, what probably happened was he met this chick with a child and decided to use them to take some money off of BBV. He was probably intending on gambling with the money to establish a roll AND help with her cancer treatments but I'm starting to doubt that her hospital bills were his primary concern, which I originally thought (hoped). Then she got screwed in the deal and made that post about it, which informed the rest of us that something was up.

Yes in hindsight there are a lot of signs that something was up. However, I think it just shows that Vig pulled a pretty good one over our eyes because most people were convinced, and the fact that people WOULDN'T donate without all the back story and the baby and everything. I don't see why prosecuting him it out of the question, even if the gf was in on the deal, she was still expecting some help with her cancer (I'm no longer 100% sure she has cancer but it still seems likely due to her recent post complaining that she didn't receive any of the money yet). Not even sure that they were bf/gf or just partners in crime but she DOES exist.

[stealthmunk]

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yea, Nath is pissing me off right now in this thread because he is such a huge presence in BBV and basically said nothing to me about any of his concerns at any point (correct me if I'm wrong Nath) and didn't make his concerns vocal in the original threads at all. Which is surprising considering how strongly opinionated he is on just about everything.

Mod decisions aren't set in stone and if a lot of people had voiced concern early on (there were a few, like Nick B and Tuff Fish) and shown some proof like what you guys are showing now (instead of just "I have a bad feeling about this") then things might have been different.

[/ QUOTE ]Well you have to also consider that at the time, if someone came out and said they thought Vig was lying, pretty much everyone would jump on them/bitch at them/ect.

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that's what PMs are for. Nath is on my IM, he has my phone number and could have pmed me at any point with his concerns

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yeah I'm just going to assume all of the i-knew-it-but-didnt-say-anythings were in on it with vig until they give one decent reason why they didn't PM a mod

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Because then I get accused of being an insensitive [censored] to a "family" with the mother dying of cancer, and why would anyone believe me?

Most people consider this to be surprising someone really stealing/gambling $ intended for his girlfriend's illness.

However, I think/know it is standard. If you have ever been to a gambler's anonymous meeting, you would know that stealing a couple grand from your girlfriend dying of cancer isn't even close to as farfetched as you guys are making it out to be and i've heard infinitely times worse stories.

At least maybe BBV has learned its lesson though.

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That explains why you didn't post in a thread, but not why you didn't PM a mod in private. Also that last part is really condescending - what are you our dad or something?

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It is condescending, I think anyone who genuinely believes people have good intentions, ESPECIALLY on an online poker forum, is gullible.

Also, gild wouldn't have put a stop to his thread on stealthmunk's (less than 300 posts) hunch. I'm not saying I was 100% sure that it was a scam. If I was friends with vig, and he told me about a scam he was pulling, I obviously would have alerted BBV. My gut instinct just told me that this guy was FOS, and I was right.

[Gildwulf]

stealth,

it's not your responsibility to notify me everytime you have a hunch something is wrong, but on the flipside if you didn't notify me it's kind of ridiculous to come in here and condescend to everyone that you knew all along and didn't mention it "because I have less than 300 posts" and it wouldn't have made a difference.

If 15 stealthmunks had pmed me you bet your ass it would have made a difference.

[syndr0me]

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Also, gild wouldn't have put a stop to his thread on stealthmunk's (less than 300 posts) hunch. I'm not saying I was 100% sure that it was a scam. If I was friends with vig, and he told me about a scam he was pulling, I obviously would have alerted BBV. My gut instinct just told me that this guy was FOS, and I was right.

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People like you and shaniac are the most annoying type of people on the internet. Granted GW maybe shouldnt have allowed Vig to use BBV for a charity drive, but he admitted it. No one called him out on it, he apologized, gave his reasoning, then apologized again. Then people (who did nothing, not PM or anything) come out and grill him for something they all of a sudden "knew" was happening. Nothing is worse than a know it all who never takes a stance on any issues on the front end. Its always after the fact.

[TheGrifter]

Alright, I just read this ENTIRE thread...I have been saying for awhile that I thought Vig was on the up and up to start and then gambled the money away...after reading the posts from Nath and reviewing some of the older threads I also have my doubts...

Damning evidence..

1. A couple of posters brought up COBRA after Vig stated his GF had been dropped from insurance, he completely disregarded this...

2. Vig specifically stated he would need $50K a year plus, he wanted/expected to get a lot of money out of this..

3. Vig blew a TON of money last year playing poker, money that Mrs. Vig probably never knew about and often played way above his head.

4. Vig sucks at poker.

5. To me this is the worst thing...AFTER the accusations came out and Vig made up his BS story he was STILL playing on Pokerstars..at one point I saw him with over $2500 spread across several tables...so if his accounts are now empty he blew through the rest of the money while he was posting on BBV and being an ass to anyone who doubted him...

[Bakedd]

Man, I just read this entire thing hoping that Vig would post something to defend himself. Obv he is guilty and not posting.

[Joymachine21]

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Also, gild wouldn't have put a stop to his thread on stealthmunk's (less than 300 posts) hunch. I'm not saying I was 100% sure that it was a scam. If I was friends with vig, and he told me about a scam he was pulling, I obviously would have alerted BBV. My gut instinct just told me that this guy was FOS, and I was right.

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People like you and shaniac are the most annoying type of people on the internet. Granted GW maybe shouldnt have allowed Vig to use BBV for a charity drive, but he admitted it. No one called him out on it, he apologized, gave his reasoning, then apologized again. Then people (who did nothing, not PM or anything) come out and grill him for something they all of a sudden "knew" was happening. Nothing is worse than a know it all who never takes a stance on any issues on the front end. Its always after the fact.

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I think so many people are so far out of line here.

Gild did an amazing job setting up the drive for VIG. He had all the info at hand. There was never one point where I remember Gild claiming him new anything about Vig on a personal level, he never forced any single person into donating he did what any decent person would do if they could. I am amazed Gild even came out and took reasonability for what a scum bag did but again it shows that he is willing to stand up if he thinks he did something wrong. We are all meant to be adults here and we all make our own decisions I personally didn’t donate and not because I thought it was b/s but I didn’t have resources to help.

[TheGrifter]

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stealth,

it's not your responsibility to notify me everytime you have a hunch something is wrong, but on the flipside if you didn't notify me it's kind of ridiculous to come in here and condescend to everyone that you knew all along and didn't mention it "because I have less than 300 posts" and it wouldn't have made a difference.

If 15 stealthmunks had pmed me you bet your ass it would have made a difference.

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Gild,

People saying they were suspicious of Vig probably were. At the same time their only responsibility was to not donate, if anyone had any evidence that he was a scammer of any sort you would've gotten a PM.

Vig snuck through and passed the BBV test. There wasn't a lot of sentiment that he might not be on the up and up and most of the evidence we now have came out after the donations were made.

Give Gild credit for saying "enough is enough" and not allowing him to continue posting, it looks like he had every intention of milking BBV for a lot more money.

We don't have to stop all charitable giving...but the next person who is truly in need is going to need to go through a lot more hoops in order to get help. If someone is in such dire straits that he/she has to go to "internet friends" for assistance then they should be willing to provide undeniable proof.

[Gildwulf]

There is a great expression coined by the Canadian politician Gordon Campbell (loosely paraphrased):

If you are in a room full of people and say "the next person who walks in is the clumsiest person I've ever met" and the person stumbles and falls, people will say "what a clumsy bumblefck".

If you are in a room full of people and say "the next person who comes into this room is the most agile, graceful person I have ever met", and the person who walks in stumbles and falls, people will say "what a graceful recovery."

Just something to keep in mind when you go back and read old threads and come to your own conclusions after the fact.