Killing off the little guy (this time it's internet radio)

[NeBlis]

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I think you are missing the point--this is not the Artist Industry of America, but the Recording Industry of America--the money that the recording companies is trying to squeeze from consumers is going to them, not the artists.

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Agree 100% that allot of recording artists get a raw deal. But they entered into a contract to license their ideas and i support both the right to enter that contract and the rights of the contract itself.

My contention that ideas can be as scarce as milk, or cars was merely to help make a larger point. That this is an example of a distortion on the behalf of the state of what would otherwise be a normal contract situation.

IP is a valid concept, but the state manipulation of that concept to suit its greedy power brokering in this case is deplorable.

[BCPVP]

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My contention that ideas can be as scarce as milk, or cars was merely to help make a larger point.

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You are totally wrong on this though. My use of the idea does not mean that you cannot also use the idea. Therefore it is not economically scarce. Whether the idea is good or bad is irrelevant to its economic scarcity.

[Skidoo]

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My use of the idea does not mean that you cannot also use the idea.

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Sure, the originator can still use his idea if you do also, but it's worth less to him.

[BCPVP]

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My use of the idea does not mean that you cannot also use the idea.

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Sure, the originator can still use his idea if you do also, but it's worth less to him.

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That doesn't mean it's scarce.

[Mickey Brausch]

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I'm talking about patent law is it exists currently - in an objectionable, non-voluntary form? You obtain compensation (which you are not legitimately entitled to) through your friendly neighborhood monopolist of violence.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh.

And here I was hoping for an elucidation into copyright protection and patent infringement in AC land, and things such as obtaining and enforcing compensation for them, by ACers, but I guess this won't happen any time soon.

There goes a 100-post hijack...

[pvn]

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My use of the idea does not mean that you cannot also use the idea.

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Sure, the originator can still use his idea if you do also, but it's worth less to him.

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I guess he should keep it to himself, then. How much is it worth to him then?

[pvn]

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neblis,

there is a difference between economic scarcity and scarcity in as it is used commonly.

a jimi hendrix song may be "scarce" in terms of being rare but it is not scarce in the economic sense of the word.

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The RIAA disagrees with you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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No. In fact, they completely agree. Their efforts are attempts to artificially *create* scarcity for intellectual property.

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As do I and many other creators of scarce ideas. I agree whole heatedly that a goverment solution is substandard at best but ideas can in fact be scarce.

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You keep saying this, but you haven't deomonstrated it. Please give us an example of a scarce idea.

[pvn]

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I'm talking about patent law is it exists currently - in an objectionable, non-voluntary form? You obtain compensation (which you are not legitimately entitled to) through your friendly neighborhood monopolist of violence.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh.

And here I was hoping for an elucidation into copyright protection and patent infringement in AC land, and things such as obtaining and enforcing compensation for them, by ACers, but I guess this won't happen any time soon.

There goes a 100-post hijack...

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If there are no patents, there can be no patent infringementaments.

[Skidoo]

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My use of the idea does not mean that you cannot also use the idea.

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Sure, the originator can still use his idea if you do also, but it's worth less to him.

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I guess he should keep it to himself, then. How much is it worth to him then?

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In most cases, he might as well keep it to himself if there's no right to its exclusive use. Given that, why bother with the R&D to begin with? Keeping his innovation to himself and deploying it in the marketplace without protection are both bad options.

[NeBlis]

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You keep saying this, but you haven't demonstrated it. Please give us an example of a scarce idea.

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I thought that I had, but since I don't type well and I suppose often don't explain myself well, I will try again.

Firstly it is a given that in specific cases IP can be misused or abused (usually by people who shouldn't be involved) due to certain market conditions (the guvment).

You are mistaking scarcity for ease of duplication IMO. It is easier to go over to your neighbors house and burn a copy of a CD or scan a photo than it is to duplicate his car or the computer you use to do the duplication.

Simply because you can upropriate something with relative ease doesn't mean that you aren't stealing or that the original owners aren't harmed. You are basically arguing for imminent domain over items that can be stolen by the general public.

Lets use the music idea to try and keep this relatively on topic. Say that I am a hiphop producer my job is to wright beats and tunes and then shop them around to artists who will then buy the usage of those songs from me and put their lyrics on them. I shop the songs around to allot of groups and eventually Ludacris likes the tune and wants to record with it. We wright up a contract for usage of my idea together with his idea agree on a price and a use and hes off to the studio. Now the song is about to be released on national radio when along comes a tune from Lil John using my exact tune copied from the demo tape. Now Luda can't release the tune because it sounds like a rip off when in fact he was ripped off. And I'm screwed because my deal was to make money off the album sales.

Regardless of whether or not ideas can be considered scarce. This is still simple contract law. In any market system you would like to operate in other than pure chaos contracts should and will exist. Your not advocating a world without contracts are you? And when you purchase music or art you are entering a defacto contract. I provide you with my IP (music) for a price. As the seller I define the limits of that contract and you can either accept or refuse it. If I want to sell a record for $500 or throw them from the back of speeding truck in bundles of 1000 that's my business. If you copy and distribute that music then you are violating our contract and harming me.