Virginia apologizes for slavery... why? - Page 16

Money2Burn · #**151** 03-01-2007, 05:18 PM

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...to express "profound regret" for the state's role in slavery.

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It's not like we invented slavery. Slavery existed for thousands of years before our country was founded. Once we decided that it was wrong it was abolished. Sure the South fought hard to keep it, but that was becuase their entire economy was built on it. In my opinion the more deplorable part of our history was the period of segregation trumped only by our treatment of native americans.

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I don't think many people agree with your analysis of our history.

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Slavery still exists in this country?

Money2Burn · #**152** 03-01-2007, 05:21 PM

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Brain,

Tounge in cheek aside, yeah basically. I'm not saying that "life should be (more) fair" is some sort of statement that I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. Such things do not exist. But I believe it to be true, and I will use whatever limited power I have to work towards it.

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How do you feel about inequalities in athleticism, looks, or mental capacity?

Brainwalter · #**153** 03-01-2007, 05:26 PM

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...to express "profound regret" for the state's role in slavery.

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It's not like we invented slavery. Slavery existed for thousands of years before our country was founded. Once we decided that it was wrong it was abolished. Sure the South fought hard to keep it, but that was becuase their entire economy was built on it. In my opinion the more deplorable part of our history was the period of segregation trumped only by our treatment of native americans.

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I don't think many people agree with your analysis of our history.

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Abolitionism was not widely popular in 1861, not even in the North.

BCPVP · #**154** 03-01-2007, 05:39 PM

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...to express "profound regret" for the state's role in slavery.

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It's not like we invented slavery. Slavery existed for thousands of years before our country was founded. Once we decided that it was wrong it was abolished. Sure the South fought hard to keep it, but that was becuase their entire economy was built on it. In my opinion the more deplorable part of our history was the period of segregation trumped only by our treatment of native americans.

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I don't think many people agree with your analysis of our history.

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Slavery still exists in this country?

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I think he might be referring to the "we" part.

Money2Burn · #**155** 03-01-2007, 06:04 PM

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...to express "profound regret" for the state's role in slavery.

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It's not like we invented slavery. Slavery existed for thousands of years before our country was founded. Once we decided that it was wrong it was abolished. Sure the South fought hard to keep it, but that was becuase their entire economy was built on it. In my opinion the more deplorable part of our history was the period of segregation trumped only by our treatment of native americans.

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I don't think many people agree with your analysis of our history.

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Abolitionism was not widely popular in 1861, not even in the North.

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I'm sorry, I see now. My post was inacurate. I know there was not overwhelming support saying slavery was morally wrong, but the fact is it got abolished. That was my point. They got it done. The fact that it happened before there was overwhelming popular support for it is something that should be looked favorably upon.

pvn · #**156** 03-01-2007, 06:40 PM

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I'm sorry, I see now. My post was inacurate. I know there was not overwhelming support saying slavery was morally wrong, but the fact is it got abolished. That was my point. They got it done. The fact that it happened before there was overwhelming popular support for it is something that should be looked favorably upon.

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Do you also look favorably upon the 700,000 who were killed in the process?

John Kilduff · #**157** 03-01-2007, 06:48 PM

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Of course, you're begging the question of the benefits.

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The benefits of lasting in perpetuity are obvious (I'm surprised you're asking.) Some (of the many) benefits include:

Not having to re-organize every time a member/shareholder/etc comes and goes or dies.

Encouraging long-term planning that projects further than the lives of the members

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Mr. X kills a person. He then dies, and leaves his estate to Mr. Y. Mr. Y dies and leaves his estate to Mr. Z. The murder is then uncovered 87 years later. Is Mr. Z responsible?

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No. Individuals do not last in perpetuity (unlike both states and corporations)

Here's another one for you:
Mr X is a nazi and stole priceless art from a jewish family. He dies and gives the art to his son (Y). There is a suriviving member of the jewish family who wishes to get the art back. Is Y entitled to keep the art?

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The problem I see with all of this is (and let's assume for the moment that the state does exist in perpetuity): that the state, in trying to recompense an old wrong, will tax NEW citizens to pay for that old debt. This differs from new investors in a corporation who willingly chose to assume such risks when they invested. The state will not pay off old debts which are newly discovered, or old debts newly legally created, by selling old assets which were profitably invested. The state will simply screw over people who had nothing to do with the original cause of the debt. The new citizens of the state did not get the power of choice corporate investors have (to invest or not), since by default everyone is a citizen of the state. So by defining the state in this manner the state is getting more advantages than even a corporation, and new citizens under the state are simply getting screwed.

Mickey Brausch · #**158** 03-01-2007, 06:54 PM

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Corporations are ... legal constructs that illegitimately shield individuals from liability. They are not free-market entities.

[/ QUOTE ] Unless I missed something, weren't you exculpating monopolistic corporations in another thread ? Now you are saying they are not even entities of the free market? Are you having us on?

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"xyz corp" is a legal entity created by the state.

[/ QUOTE ]The corporation "xyz" is not created by the state. The state merely provides the legal framework for the creation of corporations. And individual citizens create corporations by applying the law. Note that there has been no citizen call for the abolition of the relevant laws.

So, the state mechanism is not to blame here for the actions of individuals. The citizens themselves elect to have a law that allows for the creation of corporations and they also elect to have a mechanism (law courts, etc) that enforces those laws.

Finally, please note that the fiercely independent and individualistic ACer can always choose NOT to deal with corporations. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mickey Brausch

Money2Burn · #**159** 03-01-2007, 06:57 PM

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I'm sorry, I see now. My post was inacurate. I know there was not overwhelming support saying slavery was morally wrong, but the fact is it got abolished. That was my point. They got it done. The fact that it happened before there was overwhelming popular support for it is something that should be looked favorably upon.

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Do you also look favorably upon the 700,000 who were killed in the process?

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So you see it as a bad thing because people had to die for it to be accomplished? Or maybe not a bad thing, just if you had the choise between slavery still being legal in this country and 700,000 people back alive, you would choose slavery?

TomCollins · #**160** 03-01-2007, 06:59 PM

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I'm sorry, I see now. My post was inacurate. I know there was not overwhelming support saying slavery was morally wrong, but the fact is it got abolished. That was my point. They got it done. The fact that it happened before there was overwhelming popular support for it is something that should be looked favorably upon.

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Do you also look favorably upon the 700,000 who were killed in the process?

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So you see it as a bad thing because people had to die for it to be accomplished? Or maybe not a bad thing, just if you had the choise between slavery still being legal in this country and 700,000 people back alive, you would choose slavery?

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The logical fallacy of today is : false dichotomy