self censorship

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
"His "out" is court-martial and time in prison for violating his oath-- so it is not an "out" from the oath."

this has not been decided yet. in fact the govt. is scared shytless of this guy. his illegal war/illegal orders defense is compelling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe there's a prop bet in here?

[limon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"His "out" is court-martial and time in prison for violating his oath-- so it is not an "out" from the oath."

this has not been decided yet. in fact the govt. is scared shytless of this guy. his illegal war/illegal orders defense is compelling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe there's a prop bet in here?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. i get odds. considering this administration considers the constitution toilet paper i cant trust that there will be a just outcome in accordance w/ the law. 20-1 he walks?

[crookedhat99]

[ QUOTE ]
you surely cannot argue that spreading "democracy, equality, liberty" are justifications for invading a foreign country.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you knew no country would put up a fight, would you support the USA taking over the world?

*disclaimer* I don't have a concrete opinion on the subject, I'm just trying to spark an argument so I can understand the topic better

[sledghammer]

[ QUOTE ]
The Iraqi insurgents are the home team? Uh no. And when it comes to choices, the insurgents could easily stop the violence by putting down their weapons. Do you really think the situation for the peaceful Iraqi civilian will improve if the US pulled out tomorrow?

BTW - I was against the war before we invaded. I never believed the WMD BS and anyone who did is a sucker. That being said, I can see an argument that replacing the Hussein regime would be strategically beneficial to the US. I also believe that when making any kind of choice, be it moral or political, you deal with the facts as they exist. So despite what you may think about the original decision to go to war, the fact is that we are deeply entrenched right now. And to pull out immediately would cause widespread death and destruction. The death count would be far higher than what we can expect from further US occupation in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with you about the death count being higher if we leave. It isn't going to get better if we stay, so it is just delaying the inevitable. Here is an interview with someone who knows much more than me:

General William Odom interview

[limon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Guids, that research is pretty amazing considering how much we hear about poor people and the military. It's also a pretty strong endorser of a few of Limon's points, who I disagree with for the most part but makes some pretty good points.

[/ QUOTE ]


I will point out that it is from a conservative think tank that did the research, but there are tons more statistics out there from more unbiased sources. I do agree 100% that it adds credibility to limons standpoint.

[/ QUOTE ]

the plot thickens.

[limon]

"I think it's immature of limon to say 'I don't support the troops', because it's a misleading way of conveying his thoughts about the war in a way that he knows will incite people."

sorta true but i also didnt want to write a dissertation if i wasnt going to get any decent responses/debate. if the discussion was good i knew id have plenty of time expound.

[fluffpop62]

[ QUOTE ]
Limon - I lost all respect for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until you join the military and make the decision disobey a lawful order, or the day you become a prominent politician, your lack of support for our troops can be described as nothing but cowardly and physically nauseating. You aren't doing anything to change the aspects of the war that seem to bother you so much, so your opinions are less then valid and frankly, command no respect.

While I agree that yellow ribbons back home do nothing for the troops that are away, they do serve to raise awareness and remind those not deployed that there are people fighting in the name of our country. This can serve as initiative to donate to causes that do support our troops by sending care packages and letters. There are bad seeds in every group of people. Just like asians that drive poorly will be much more noticeable then asians that drive well, soldiers that are scarred by war and act in a way that you would describe as immoral will be on the news much more then those receiving medals. Not everyone is accepted into the military; as a matter of fact, 60% of people my age (20) are not even eligible to enlist because of the stringent requirements held by the US military. Just as the crazy astronaut made news because she drove across country in her diapers, there are going to be crazy soldiers who slip through the cracks. I'd love for you to come visit me on Tuesday mornings and talk to some of the 80-odd kids that have already been to Iraq more then once. These aren't bad people, nor are they stupid for wanting to support their country.

I'm absolutely appalled that people like you and the LA Times journalist exist. To criticize something that you have no intention of changing, and then to imply that people who signed up to defend your country are jeopardizing your freedom is ludicrous.