Poker is a game of accidents

[viciouspenguin]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is talking about "TAG" and "LAG," I think what we fail to think about is that another style may soon revolutionize the game.

I introduce to you, the LAP.

The LAP (Loose and Passive, obviously) will be the next big thing in high stakes poker. This style will be so difficult to play against- they will check, and call. Check and call. Check the river with the nuts, and then just call the bet. Preflop, the LAP will always limp, never raise. You will never know when the LAP has a big hand, because his preflop stats will be like 50/0, with no raises to define his hand. The aggression of the LAGs and TAGs will be used against them- the LAP will call call call, all the time. The LAP flops top set? He will check it to you on three streets, no matter how draw heavy the board is. You will have no hand reading skills against the LAP, and you will FREQUENTLY find yourself value betting the worst hand. [censored] end of the straight on the river? Have to value bet it- when WHAM- the LAP has slowplayed the top end the whole time, and sand bagged your ass into value betting the worst hand. If you think that Aggro LAGs really put players on tilt- you haven't seen anything until you see a LAP put someone on tilt. TPTK? Value bet it until the end. If the LAP flopped top two, he'll be milking your ass for three streets of value. Check check check, call call call. Most of these LAPs play in tournaments around the world, and in casinos live. Primarily, the only LAPs known to man are in the AARP club. However, wait until the young, internet generation gets a hold of the LAP style... the possibilities are endless.

Remember, you heard it here first.

[/ QUOTE ]

eric lindgren/daniel negreanu/eli elizra/jamie gold/etc...

[aejones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is talking about "TAG" and "LAG," I think what we fail to think about is that another style may soon revolutionize the game.

I introduce to you, the LAP.

The LAP (Loose and Passive, obviously) will be the next big thing in high stakes poker. This style will be so difficult to play against- they will check, and call. Check and call. Check the river with the nuts, and then just call the bet. Preflop, the LAP will always limp, never raise. You will never know when the LAP has a big hand, because his preflop stats will be like 50/0, with no raises to define his hand. The aggression of the LAGs and TAGs will be used against them- the LAP will call call call, all the time. The LAP flops top set? He will check it to you on three streets, no matter how draw heavy the board is. You will have no hand reading skills against the LAP, and you will FREQUENTLY find yourself value betting the worst hand. [censored] end of the straight on the river? Have to value bet it- when WHAM- the LAP has slowplayed the top end the whole time, and sand bagged your ass into value betting the worst hand. If you think that Aggro LAGs really put players on tilt- you haven't seen anything until you see a LAP put someone on tilt. TPTK? Value bet it until the end. If the LAP flopped top two, he'll be milking your ass for three streets of value. Check check check, call call call. Most of these LAPs play in tournaments around the world, and in casinos live. Primarily, the only LAPs known to man are in the AARP club. However, wait until the young, internet generation gets a hold of the LAP style... the possibilities are endless.

Remember, you heard it here first.

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't the "A" in TAG or LAG stand for aggressive? if so, how can one be a lap? wouldn't it have to be a lip or a lup or something along those lines?

[/ QUOTE ]

no.. uhh... the "A" stands for "and." "Loose AND Passive." LAP. Boom.

[SuperPokerJedi]

[ QUOTE ]
i think vanveen made a post in a thread about hallingol which said what you just said

[/ QUOTE ]

And you sound bitter even though I wouldn't have got a link or recent interest in this subject if it hadn't been for J's excellent post! ! !

[McIntireUVA]

Sarcasm is wasted on some. Nice post about LAPs lol.

[FoldEqu1ty]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is talking about "TAG" and "LAG," I think what we fail to think about is that another style may soon revolutionize the game.

I introduce to you, the LAP.

The LAP (Loose and Passive, obviously) will be the next big thing in high stakes poker. This style will be so difficult to play against- they will check, and call. Check and call. Check the river with the nuts, and then just call the bet. Preflop, the LAP will always limp, never raise. You will never know when the LAP has a big hand, because his preflop stats will be like 50/0, with no raises to define his hand. The aggression of the LAGs and TAGs will be used against them- the LAP will call call call, all the time. The LAP flops top set? He will check it to you on three streets, no matter how draw heavy the board is. You will have no hand reading skills against the LAP, and you will FREQUENTLY find yourself value betting the worst hand. [censored] end of the straight on the river? Have to value bet it- when WHAM- the LAP has slowplayed the top end the whole time, and sand bagged your ass into value betting the worst hand. If you think that Aggro LAGs really put players on tilt- you haven't seen anything until you see a LAP put someone on tilt. TPTK? Value bet it until the end. If the LAP flopped top two, he'll be milking your ass for three streets of value. Check check check, call call call. Most of these LAPs play in tournaments around the world, and in casinos live. Primarily, the only LAPs known to man are in the AARP club. However, wait until the young, internet generation gets a hold of the LAP style... the possibilities are endless.

Remember, you heard it here first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling >>>>>>> Raising

[pr1me]

omg, nevermind

[jdock99]

You guys probably do not see it as much in the high limit games, but in the smaller games you will frequently see "LAP's" with 60/0 stats with 3-4 buy in stacks they have taken off tables that have a 60/40 table maniac. These players seem to "accidentally" do very well in games with the dynamic that a table maniac will cause. Their stategy does not just seem to work well against the maniac, but also the TAG's and LAG's who are playing back at the maniac. However, once the maniac invariably busts this style invariably becomes hugely -EV and the "LAP" will shortly lose all of his winnings and then some.

Not sure the point of this response is, but I guess it is to say there do seem to be very rare situations where the Loose Passive style is effective (at least in low limit games).

[SuperPokerJedi]

[ QUOTE ]
An old grinder once told me, "tight is right."

[/ QUOTE ]

Do You See Why ??

[letsgamble!]

Nice post. Very true.
The large majority of players keep with poker the same learning logic as in real life. Being too results oriented. It's very difficult not to be at the beginning, but maybe what is the most important to become good is to be able quickly enough to look at things differently.

Most players don't, most players keep the same habits they learned at their beginnings. I guess they are usually in trouble when they have played too long at a given limit, or have been playing tournaments for too long before playing cash. Look at Helmuth. He has been winning playing donkaments, then considered himself the best and does not think about improving his game no more. You don't need to watch him play long to see there are loads of concepts he does not understand in poker.
This is the problem of all players who have developped a single way of playing due to a particular learning experience.

It s funny to talk with some big winners and see that some fundamental misunderstandings don't affect the bottom line as long as the opposition is not that tough.
However, most of v good players understand the concepts of the game more than only having developed a "wonky single poker strategy that seems to work most of the time". But it's sure fun to see you don't need that to be able to win loads at 10/20 NL at least...