Peyton Manning, Greatest QB of all time?

[DrewDevil]

Assuming that Manning continues on and does not get hurt, he will own every passing record in the book by the time he retires.

If that happens and he wins at least one more SB, I think I will consider him the best of all time.

[jesusarenque]

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Also Brady isn't right now and has never been the second best QB in the NFL.

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if the NFL exploded and the 32 NFL GM's got to pick a player to start their franchise for next year (or the next 3 years), I think it would go something like this:

21 of them would take Manning #1
7 of them would take Brady #1
3 would take some other QB #1
Matt Millen would take Reggie Wayne

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That doesn't change the fact that Brady has never been the second best QB in the NFL.

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it doesn't change the fact that you don't think he's 2nd best, but I'll take 32 NFL GM's player evaluation skills over yours.

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Football Outsiders agrees with me .

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I wonder why those guys don't run NFL teams. seems like that would be better than running fo.com.

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Was Ryan Leaf the second-best player in the 1998 draft? After all, several GMs thought he was.

[Pudge714]

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Pudge in 3/6 years since 2001, Jake Plummer has finished higher in DPAR than Tom Brady. I guess that means it's pretty much a toss-up between these 2 guys?

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According to DPAR Brady has never been the second best QB in the NFL.
Brady's average DPAR>>>>> Plummer's average DPAR and 2001 was a short season for Brady.

[Fallen Hero]

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Are you saying that (...) we shouldn't judge a player by how much he helps his team win?

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helping his team win =/= him winning

[NoChance]

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The core of my argument is extremely simple. It can be easily stated in two points:

1. Manning has had more surrounding talent than Brady on his teams.
2. Brady has won more than Manning.

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I am so sick of reading this from Brady lovers. If you are talking about having more talent surrounding Manning on offense then these statements hold true. BUT, Brady had more talent around him on defense and special teams and THAT is why he has won more games.

More talent surrounding him on offense, yes. More talent surrounding him on the TEAM, no.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Pudge in 3/6 years since 2001, Jake Plummer has finished higher in DPAR than Tom Brady. I guess that means it's pretty much a toss-up between these 2 guys?

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According to DPAR Brady has never been the second best QB in the NFL.
Brady's average DPAR>>>>> Plummer's average DPAR and 2001 was a short season for Brady.

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so you're an NFL GM in my hypothetical, with the #2 pick. Manning went #1. Which QB are you taking for the next 3 years?

I'm pretty sure the FO guys, btw, would come to the same answer as the vast majority of NFL GM's. if you don't think so, feel free to start a thread over there.

if that doesn't make him (at least) the 2nd best QB in the NFL, then I don't know what could.

[TheRover]

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Pudge in 3/6 years since 2001, Jake Plummer has finished higher in DPAR than Tom Brady. I guess that means it's pretty much a toss-up between these 2 guys?

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I guess my last post was deleted, whatever. Posts like this are so retarded and it pisses me off so much. Do you ever think about how clueless and disingenuous you sound when you say crap like this? Is it fun to not understand things at all and then make up and attribute a strawman position to someone?

[Jack of Arcades]

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Pudge in 3/6 years since 2001, Jake Plummer has finished higher in DPAR than Tom Brady. I guess that means it's pretty much a toss-up between these 2 guys?

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First of all, not only are you being intentionally misleading here, you're wrong. Plummer has only outperformed Brady TWO years - 01 (19 DPAR) and 03 (6 DPAR). Brady has outperformed Plummer by DPAR scores of 70, 16, 60, and 72.

[Eagles]

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Assani,
If Brady is clutch please explain the following

His awful game against San Diego
His game killing redzone pick vs. Denver

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I'm certainly not getting into the Brady/Manning debate again, but quotes like this are very very dumb.


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I agree that was the point if Brady had those games 3 years ago he'd be a choker.
Tom Brady really has only played very well in two playoff games

Against Oakland in 2001 which was a game they should have lost anyways (I don't want to get into a huge tuck rule discussion)and against carolina in the Superbowl other than that his playoff games have been mediocre at best.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT ---------------------+-------------------------
2001 oak W,16-13 | 32 52 312 0 1
2001 pit W,24-17 | 12 18 115 0 0
2001 stl W,20-17 | 16 27 145 1 0
2003 ten W,17-14 | 21 41 201 1 0
2003 ind W,24-14 | 22 37 237 1 1
2003 car W,32-29 | 32 48 354 3 1
2004 ind W,20-3 | 18 27 144 1 0
2004 pit W,41-27 | 14 21 207 2 0
2004 phi W,24-21 | 23 33 236 2 0
2005 jax W,28-3 | 15 27 201 3 0
2005 den L,13-27 | 20 36 341 1 2
2006 nyj W,37-16 | 22 34 212 2 0
2006 sdg W,24-21 | 27 51 280 2 3
2006 ind L,34-38 | 21 34 232 1 1

Link

[Jack of Arcades]

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The core of my argument is extremely simple. It can be easily stated in two points:

1. Manning has had more surrounding talent than Brady on his teams.
2. Brady has won more than Manning.

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I'd like to see you try to defend #1. Brady might as well have been carried to 3 SB wins. He played better than say, Ben Roethlisberger in his SB, but the NE wins were all about Defense and ST.

And #2 - just because Brady's team has won more, doesn't mean Brady has helped his team win more than Manning.