This should end all of the false claims about paying US taxes on poker - Page 5

atomicsoda · #41 02-01-2007, 06:02 PM

Al Capone went to jail on tax evasion because they couldn't convict him for anything else and needed something they could convict him of. The IRS is not going after losing gamblers. deposits to your bank account are a flag and if you have them prepare your taxes as you should. If you never cash out the IRS is not investigating whether you gambled and lost. They do not ask for the casino players card records of random people to see that they won $500 at slots overall and lost $1500 at slots overall, which your card will show.

atomicsoda · #42 02-01-2007, 06:07 PM

F U too. I am not talking about people who derive income from gambling (less than 1% of people). you said most people prepare their taxes correctly. Not so. I understand constructive receipt [censored] wad. you do not understand the IRS and their priorities. Only people like you who take money out of their poker accounts need to worry. you are scaring people who make no money gambling online.

cardcounter0 · #43 02-01-2007, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I've written an article about what a session is. Although you won't like my conclusions, a tournament is a session. For those who play lots of SNGs, they have lots of sessions. That's the law.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that is not the law. The law is very vague and leaves exactly what a session is undefined. There has been no case law to rely upon to try to further define session.

Your session definition is very restrictive. In fact, if you look at the log information that the IRS suggests gamblers keep, it would be inefficient to record sessions in the manner you prescribe.

The data that the IRS suggests you keep is more in line with -- you sit down to play, session starts; when you get up, session is over. Multi-table, multiple tourney's, ect. as long as it is continious, it is a single session.

You have maintained this stricter than the IRS stance on session definition, and now you are even lying about it.

"That's the law." -- BULL! The law is intentionally vague.
In fact, when the law is vague on definition, one has to rely on the dictionary definition -- Session: A period of time devoted to a specific activity, as to recording music in a studio. Playing SNGs online is a specific activity, and the time devoted to playing multiple SNGs online, would be the session.

greyhawke54 · #44 02-01-2007, 06:09 PM

I think Atomicsoda has a point. Most people that I know that go to a casino usually lose in the long run. They do however have the ocassional win. Be it hitting a jackpot on a slot or hot run at some table game. These people never worry about the taxes on winning, unless they have to fill out a form (W2G i am assuming). I have even been told (not by a credible source) that this is why a lot of slot machine jackpots are just under $1200. By doing this they are avoiding a the mandatory reporting amount. Supposedly you have to fill out paperwork at the casino on any jackpot over $1200.

I realize that my sample size is small and that the information may be totally incorrect. Please do not flame. Just post corrections. Thanks in advance fro thiis. This is just information that I have been told by some people that I play in a home poker game that regualarly play casion slots. They view any winnings as "found money". Unless they have have to fill out paperwork at the casino when they collect their jackpot.

Wongboy · #45 02-01-2007, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think most people prepare their taxes correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do most people declare the following as income?

> Mistakes made by a cashier in their favor (presumably our honest tax payer did not notice this until later). BTW, if they fail to notice the cashier mistake, they are still filing their taxes incorrectly.
> Money earned through odd jobs, babysitting, etc.
> A friend who gives you $20 for gas since you drove.
> Fair value of free drinks when you forgot your wallet and a friend paid.
> All winning lottery tickets, pull tabs, etc, regardless of amount won.
> All wins from a casino playing blackjack, etc.
> The $5 bets that you won from your golf buddies.
> Fair value of frequent flier miles that you earned while taking an employer-paid business trip.
> Any other cash received which is not specifically exempted from income per IRS regulations.

Alot of people will occasionally lose a couple hundred dollars gambling in a casino. I would guess that fewer than 1% of these recreational, losing players reports income for their gross wins.

I would say that almost no one prepares their taxes correctly. Most people make a good faith effort and are honest in reporting substantially all of their income.

RoundGuy · #46 02-01-2007, 06:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Only people like you who take money out of their poker accounts need to worry. you are scaring people who make no money gambling online.

[/ QUOTE ]
omg. Are you serious? You're talking about people who lose money at online poker???

This conversation is ludicrous, and I'm guessing you have no idea why.....

Thank you for my biggest laugh of the day.

atomicsoda · #47 02-01-2007, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think most people prepare their taxes correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do most people declare the following as income?

> Mistakes made by a cashier in their favor (presumably our honest tax payer did not notice this until later). BTW, if they fail to notice the cashier mistake, they are still filing their taxes incorrectly.
> Money earned through odd jobs, babysitting, etc.
> A friend who gives you $20 for gas since you drove.
> Fair value of free drinks when you forgot your wallet and a friend paid.
> All winning lottery tickets, pull tabs, etc, regardless of amount won.
> All wins from a casino playing blackjack, etc.
> The $5 bets that you won from your golf buddies.
> Fair value of frequent flier miles that you earned while taking an employer-paid business trip.
> Any other cash received which is not specifically exempted from income per IRS regulations.

Alot of people will occasionally lose a couple hundred dollars gambling in a casino. I would guess that fewer than 1% of these recreational, losing players reports income for their gross wins.

I would say that almost no one prepares their taxes correctly. Most people make a good faith effort and are honest in reporting substantially all of their income.

[/ QUOTE ]

you sir are 100% right.

Dave2020 · #48 02-01-2007, 06:15 PM

So I was talking to Phil Ivey's brother yesterday and I asked him...
"If 2006 is my first time filing as a professional gambler, am I required to have already payed quarterly installments on my 2006 poker income?"
I asked him this because I thought i had read something somewhere that said if you have no previous records to base quarterly payments on, you may not be responsible to do so...
He didn't know. Do any of you know about this? Maybe Russ Fox knows???

Russ Fox · #49 02-01-2007, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, that is not the law. The law is very vague and leaves exactly what a session is undefined. There has been no case law to rely upon to try to further define session.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true.

I didn't say what I should have: the law is that you must report by session (my response was to an individual claiming that he could net everything, which, of course, isn't the case). The definition of a session doesn't exist. Indeed, that was the premise of the article I wrote on what is a gambling session.

Actually, the IRS' view (which has been made clear to me from the audits I've been to) is much more restrictive than my own view. The IRS examiners I've dealt with have said that a session is your play at any one table at any one set of limits. If you're in a must move game, and you're moved, that's a new session. I think that's ridiculous, but that's what they've tried to use.

[ QUOTE ]
The law is intentionally vague.

[/ QUOTE ] We'd have to ask Congress about that....

-- Russ Fox
co-author, "Why You Lose at Poker"

atomicsoda · #50 02-01-2007, 06:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think Atomicsoda has a point. Most people that I know that go to a casino usually lose in the long run. They do however have the ocassional win. Be it hitting a jackpot on a slot or hot run at some table game. These people never worry about the taxes on winning, unless they have to fill out a form (W2G i am assuming). I have even been told (not by a credible source) that this is why a lot of slot machine jackpots are just under $1200. By doing this they are avoiding a the mandatory reporting amount. Supposedly you have to fill out paperwork at the casino on any jackpot over $1200.

I realize that my sample size is small and that the information may be totally incorrect. Please do not flame. Just post corrections. Thanks in advance fro thiis. This is just information that I have been told by some people that I play in a home poker game that regualarly play casion slots. They view any winnings as "found money". Unless they have have to fill out paperwork at the casino when they collect their jackpot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think $600 is the limit now. I noticed a casino in Vegas that capped the high hand jackpots at $599 for this reason. They pay it in chips and it is considered table stakes, so the cap avoids any IRS reporting issues and players don't need to worry about taxes on it.