What good are we? As poker players, are we socially responsible?

[Xhad]

Okay, so what about all the people who go to a casino and play unbeatable games? They know they're a favorite to lose, but they do it anyway because it's fun. Pretty much all people who do this explain that when they lose money they are just paying for entertainment. So how is this any different? Winning poker players and regulars at cardrooms are far more instrumental in creating and keeping games going than just your average recreational fish.

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Rocks do a lot more for keeping a game going than TAGs. TAGs take as much money as they can and then if the game goes bad they leave. It's possible that some cardrooms have such a low clientele that the sharks are required for there to be a game at all, but in most cases that's the minority.

[Coffee]

Poker is a hobby to almost everyone who plays, winners or losers. How many other hobbies does one even have a chance of making money? Most hobbies are -EV to the bankroll...this one isn't, unless I'm having a bad run of cards. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I would feel worse for the fish if they never won, bate. Then, that would signal some deeper problem in these people's psyche. Frankly, most fish are just gamblers who have figured out that you lose your money slower playing poker(which is typically correct, compared to other -EV table games).

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that would also automatically make me one of those same few "lucky"/"able" ones who either directly or indirectly are the reason for the financial, emotional troubles of the rest "unlucky"/"unable" ones.

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What business of yours is it what they choose to do with their own money? No one makes someone sit down with you, bate. This is a point that many miss when feeling "guilty" over playing poker. No one is telling the fish that they HAVE to come lose money to you. They are not strapped to their seats. They can leave any time. You seem as though you understand this intellectually, but not emotionally.

Forgive me for asking, but why is it important to be socially responsible? What does this term mean, exactly? You seem to indicate a sort of paternalism that adults should embody when considering their activities...as though others can't be trusted to make their own decisions about their lives. I am trying very hard not to turn this into a political post, but this sort of thinking is what leads us down the road traveled by both sides of the political spectrum these days, which feels that we are unable to choose not to smoke cigarettes, ride a bike without a helmet, or legally marry people of the same sex. If those are concepts you hold dear, then I humbly submit that perhaps poker is too individualistic a game for you. Otherwise, SNAP OUT OF IT, and go win some money. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[BarronVangorToth]

If you're really worried about being some type of drain on society, make sure that your time on the tables -- especially noticeable when playing live -- that you are an enriching element to all those you play against.

In the end, like JEJ says in Field of Dreams (I'll paraphrase): it is money they have, and peace they seek.

Provide the latter and they won't care about the former.

IF that's a concern for you.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[revots33]

People play poker to either win money or for entertainment. Anyone who says they play poker in order to benefit society is kidding themselves.

[raze]

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I think it would be more beneficial if that low-skilled laborer in India or Aruba or wherever providing support for my exchange of money called poker was instead employed to produce something of value (a computer part or even some cheap item sold at Wal-Mart) . I don't think it would make much of a difference to the laborer and something productive/useful would come out of the whole process.
Bate

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Morally, I have a much easier time making my income playing poker than if I were contributing to the ruin of our planet by creating "useful" cheap items sold at Walmart, or for example engineering & making myself a fortune with some new technological piece of crap that makes people even more lazy, stupid, and technologically reliant. I really have a huge problem with this. It really seems to me that the fundamental of business is to exploit SOMETHING (oil, our environment, unskilled card players, whatever) for your own selfish profitability. But anyways my point is what you consider "socially responsible", I consider ignorant and destructive. I am waiting for the day when we run out of oil to burn and CNN calls it a "major disaster".
I rationize poker as a dream job to me in that I am not contributing in a significant way to our terribly destructive consumer society. And yeah I realize that online poker = technology, but to my credit there isn't a casino cardroom within 5 hours of my home =)

[BarronVangorToth]

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People play poker to either win money or for entertainment. Anyone who says they play poker in order to benefit society is kidding themselves.

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The first part is true. However, you can be a benefit while making money OR by entertaining yourself.

In all things...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[pvn]

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Where does this conception come from that your income source = your contribution to society?

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You're making it a value judgement. It's an economic judgement. Don't take it personally.

[greenroom1]

What about donating a portion of your profits to charity. The most obvious examply is Barry Greenstein. Maybe we all can't afford to give everything to carity (he might keep some of it), but I think giving a portion of your winnings to charity is a good way to live with any type of feeling that you are not being productive to society. If you enjoy playing cards and can make a living and give some to charity then who says you aren't living a productive and meaningful life.

[pvn]

Yeah, but you still haven't contributed anything *new*. You're just donating somebody else's money. The guy you won it from could have donated it himself.

On the flipside, the money you won that you spent on coke and hookers might have been donated to charity by the guy you won it from, had he not lost it.

Like I said, this has nothing to do with "meaningful" - it's strictly an economics question, not a values question. Playing poker itself does not contribute anything. Poker players *may* contribute things.

[Good Idea]

I go to work all day and come home and play with my son. At 8:30 I turn on the TV, fire up the computer and play poker until 11:00. Before I started playing online I had the same routine except the poker part. The money I win goes to buy stocks for my boys college education. You can decide if that is a contribution to society or not.

Regards,
G.I.