Is Triple Draw really worth it?

[2461Badugi]

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Sure PLO has variance, but it also has high win rates.

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And TD definitely doesn't. Nope. All variance. By no means should anyone try to play 2-7 TD for the profit. Y'all go play holdem.

[Murakawa]

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Sure PLO has variance, but it also has high win rates.

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And TD definitely doesn't. Nope. All variance. By no means should anyone try to play 2-7 TD for the profit. Y'all go play holdem.

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Ok

[Al Mirpuri]

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Sure PLO has variance, but it also has high win rates.

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And TD definitely doesn't. Nope. All variance. By no means should anyone try to play 2-7 TD for the profit. Y'all go play holdem.

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Sarcasm is hardly argument.

Moreover, Triple Draw Lowball games are full of specialists though there are fish in the mix as well but not nearly as many fish as to be found in Hold'em.

[Al Mirpuri]

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Reading some posts here, and my own admittedly small sample of experiences, is leading me to think that the edge a good player might have in this game, certainly from 30-60 levels and above, are not worth the massive variance. A bit like short handed holdem, but much worse. Thoughts and views?

cheers

Dave

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Unmentioned so far is the lowball fact that hands get worse. Yep. This adds to the natural variance found in all poker games. In Hold'em, your pocket rockets may turn into losers on the flop but but they have worsened relatively in relation to the other players' hands. In TDL, your hand worsens absolutely, so not only do your opponents improve but your 7532x becomes 77532. Another TDL fact: it is a form of 'closed' poker so hands are not easy to read this makes it good for bluffing and also means hand reading is of less value both of these consequences add to your variance as well.

I win at Hold'em and at Seven Stud, had mixed experiences at Draw, same with Five Stud, I stink at Pot Limit Omaha, I play TDL reasonably well but I do not think their are all that many good games about and the variance is enough to put me off anyway.

[2461Badugi]

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Sarcasm is hardly argument.


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I'm not arguing. I'm agreeing vehemently.

[*TT*]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sure PLO has variance, but it also has high win rates.

[/ QUOTE ]

And TD definitely doesn't. Nope. All variance. By no means should anyone try to play 2-7 TD for the profit. Y'all go play holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sarcasm is hardly argument.

Moreover, Triple Draw Lowball games are full of specialists though there are fish in the mix as well but not nearly as many fish as to be found in Hold'em.

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The problem with the fish is that they have one compelling strategy that hurts the expert player - staying pat with very weak hands with the commitment to see it to the river. Of course this very same strategy also helps the expert player for example when he is pat with a clean 8 and the fishy player calls to the river with JT267 just to keep you honest, but more often it helps the fishy player than the expert because the fishy player can stay pat with any hand at any time forcing the hero to redefine his range of acceptable hands on the river.

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining at all - but its important to note that Triple Draw allows fishy players to equalize the field rather easily compared to most other games.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Big Limpin]

TT,

If you are winning at a table of solids+fish, then does alot of your profit come from the decent players too? I mean, does the best player make the decent players make mistakes, that fish just cant be made to do?

Or fish just find their ways to spew and you all mop it up? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[gergery]

Several reasons to play TD
1) Sometimes I don't find fish playing in my regular games, but there is one playing TD
2) sometimes i'm frustrated/tilted w my regular games and want to play poker and make money but with with some variety or less stress
3) it brings alive and helps you understand elements of poker. much like PLO brings home power of position, TD brings alive how to play river (3rd draw)
4) i think it can be nicely profitable, but its hard to say since the variance is so large it obscures figuring out a winrate
5) its fun. master something new and maybe you'll enjoy poker more
-g

[Big Dave D]

The general problem is that any poker game where decision outcomes, regardless of how they are derived, are the same for both expert and fish is going to be one with a lower win rate. And it seems to me that there are a *lot* of scenarios where this is the case in Triple Draw.

gl

dd

[DustinG]

"As Joey Hawthorne/Doyle Brunson wrote in SSI: 'lowball is a disease not a game' or words to that poetic effect. The same is true of Triple Draw Lowball"

That is such a great quote. There is without a doubt a certain masochism involved in playing duece. And this pain is something that I'm experiencing right now after my 50 bet loss yesterday and bad running right now- even in the low stakes games on stars which are so much better than I ever saw on UB.

Yes, the variance is high and yes a lot of the decisions are automatic. One part of the problem (if it could be called a problem) is that in order to increase your edge you also increase variance through playing the turn aggresively and liberal value-betting on the river. But all it takes is one bad player to make a triple draw game good, and from what I understand there are plenty of bad players at all of the limits.

I don't know if playing TD is worth it or not in terms of win-rate, bankroll managment, etc. Its certainly hard to multi-table TD- both because of the amount of clicking and the lack of games. And I have a feeling that I could win more by multitabling NLHE sngs, but I love the pain.....