Peyton Manning, Greatest QB of all time?

[DMBFan23]

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http://www.pro-football-reference.co...rdpress/?p=234

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looks like the defense and special teams helped with Brady's rings a TON

every quarterback's production falls off in the playoffs, Brady isn't some golden god

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I can see why so many people hate him because he is THAT good. Manning is that good too, they are the best 2 in the game and will both be top 5 when they hang them up.

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Yeah my comment was mostly directed at those who somehow think that manning would not have won those rings with those teams and that coach

although I hate belichick and everything Pats-related, you have to admit that they have one of the best run organizations - they are very good at finding and developing new talent, getting the most out of "mediocre" veterans, and staying in a reasonable salary cap position. And I very rarely see the Pats get outcoached.

However, although he is very good, I think that Brady is somewhat-to-very overrated, partially due to ESPN's constant nut-hugging.

It's somewhat like a quote that has stuck in my head from John Elway's retirement article in SI way back when: "Put John Elway behind all those 49er lines, and he still gets the rings. But put Joe Montana behind those old Broncos lines, and he's either dead or selling insurance by 30"

That is not to say that Peyton = Elway. he's had some offensive talent, partially because he makes them good (delivering the ball quickly to avoid sacks, etc), partially because they are studs. but it is to say that Tom Brady is overrated IMO.

[DMBFan23]

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I've argued this many times in the past. Even without the Super Bowls, Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning.

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By what measure?

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That being said, there are still a few of the all time greats that are better than both.

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Agreed. Young = NASTY. Elway = NASTY. (although I hate the Eli Manning that he pulled when he got drafted, and had I been around for that, would not have liked him). Marino = NASTY. I think Peyton can pass some or all of these guys though.

[DMBFan23]

BTW I'm going to put my "overrated" comment into context. I think he is the 2nd or possibly 3rd best QB in the NFL at any given time. (Manning = 1st IMO. One of either Carson Palmer or McNabb can challenge for 2nd occasionally. Over any reasonable span of time, Brady is the clear #2 due to injuries). But that's been pointed out above, by other posters.

However, let's hold off on the Young/Marino/Montana comparisons (I'M LOOKING AT YOU SPORTSCENTER). that's what I meant by overrated.

[TheRover]

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Of course, I'd still say Manning/Brady are 1-2 for QB talent in the league, and nobody else is challenging, yet.

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There hasn't been one season where Brady has been the second best QB in the NFL.

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Has anybody been as consistently good over the past 5 seasons as those 2?

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Trent Green>Brady

[SL__72]

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I don't think Manning's o-line is all that great.

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He doesn't either. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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What do you mean by that? Are people still hung up on the comment about the protection breaking down a year (or 2?) ago? Because if I remember it right it sounded as much like a shot at himself as it did the O-line. Hes the one who is supposed to read the defense and call the play/protection so if the protection was bad, he would share the blame.

Also, relevant/interesting chat from FO this weekend:

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Michael David Smith: Am I the only one on the FO staff who thinks the Colts have a bad o-line? When I watch plays like that Addai pick up of six inches on third-and-four inches, I just feel like the Colts’ line is the worst in the league at pushing forward in short yardage, which in my opinion is the most important thing a line has to do.

Mike Tanier: Greg Cosell at NFL Films told me in December that they have an average at best line made better by Peyton. But they really looked good against the Eagles, the Ravens last week … I really had them scouted out as better than this. They really look awful.

Aaron Schatz: Well, the Colts’ line is definitely terrible at pushing forward in short yardage, and has been for years and years. Not the only way to judge a line, but they do suck at it.



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[Sykes]

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steve young
dan marino
montana
manning

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add a few more names to the debate:
elway
farve
bradshaw
unitas
nameth

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sure
sure
sure
probably
not even close to top 20.

nameth is so overrated it's not even funny.
unitas probably makes top10 barely.

[CharlieDontSurf]

By the time Manning finishes his career he will have passed
Young
Marino
Montana

and he'll be #1....but if he only wins say 1 SB....in a ton of fans eyes he'll just be an all time great but not the greatest.

[Edge34]

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I've argued this many times in the past. Even without the Super Bowls, Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning.

That being said, there are still a few of the all time greats that are better than both.

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I'm pretty sure there's not one single statistic that would back this up.

Peyton - single season passing TD record, multi-time NFL MVP, multi-time Pro bowler.

Brady - Rings...oh wait, you just said "without" the rings.

Here's the other thing - Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Is Tom Brady better than him? Trent Dilfer? Ben Roethlisberger? Ludicrous, right?

[Golden_Rhino]

Favre > Manning

[Richard Tanner]

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I've argued this many times in the past. Even without the Super Bowls, Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning.

That being said, there are still a few of the all time greats that are better than both.

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I'm pretty sure there's not one single statistic that would back this up.

Peyton - single season passing TD record, multi-time NFL MVP, multi-time Pro bowler.

Brady - Rings...oh wait, you just said "without" the rings.

Here's the other thing - Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Is Tom Brady better than him? Trent Dilfer? Ben Roethlisberger? Ludicrous, right?

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Careful Edge, I got lambasted in another thread for mentioning that a large argument for Brady isn't play, but rather rings.

Also I'm gonna quote Zurvan here because I agree with (and have said) exactly what he says many times before, and maybe if people keep reading it, it'll sink in.
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All athletes in all sports are at the mercy of the team that drafts them. If they get picked up by a bad organization that can't develop them as they need to be developed, or put the appropriate team around them, they have no shot to be great.

To say that Manning is only as good as he is because the Colts built around him is foolish. Of course he depends on his team to develop him & build the offense around him. All players do.

Manning is a better QB in every way than Tom Brady, except in one: Brady has a better defense. THat's it. He's still a good QB, but doesn't have the skill of Manning.

Football is the "ultimate team game". To say Brady is a better QB because he has more rings is ridiculous. Brady doesn't play all 22 positions on the field. He plays one. And he doesn't play defense, which is what earned those rings.

Of course, I'd still say Manning/Brady are 1-2 for QB talent in the league, and nobody else is challenging, yet.


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Cody