Value Betting

Boggy Depot · #1 12-29-2006, 10:33 PM

I seem to puss out on the last value bet when I have the best hand and am missing out on some valuable cash. Am I missing something on these hands that tells me I need to push one more bet or do I just need bigger kajones?

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Boggy Depot is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, MP2 calls, Boggy Depot (poster) checks, CO raises, 2 folds, BB calls, MP2 calls, Boggy Depot calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8.4SB, 4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Boggy Depot bets, CO calls, 2 folds.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.2BB, 2 players)
Boggy Depot bets, CO raises, Boggy Depot calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9.2BB, 2 players)
Boggy Depot bets, CO raises, Boggy Depot calls.

Results:
Final pot: 13.2BB

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Boggy Depot is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Boggy Depot calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.4SB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Boggy Depot raises, CO calls, 2 folds.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.7BB, 2 players)
Boggy Depot bets, CO calls.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.7BB, 2 players)
Boggy Depot checks, CO checks.

Results:
Final pot: 6.7BB

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Boggy Depot is MP1 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Boggy Depot calls, 3 folds, Button raises, 2 folds, Boggy Depot calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.4SB, 2 players)
Boggy Depot checks, Button bets, Boggy Depot raises, Button calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.7BB, 2 players)
Boggy Depot bets, Button calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.7BB, 2 players)
Boggy Depot checks, Button checks.

Results:
Final pot: 6.7BB

BigBadBabar · #2 12-29-2006, 10:36 PM

hand 1, 3bet the river
hand 2, bet the river
hand 3, fold preflop. given that you didn't, your play is fine.

threads13 · #3 12-29-2006, 10:47 PM

I am ok with the first hand.

Hand two is a value bet for sure and hand 3 is a little stranger but I think it is ok.

Hand-reading is important in these situations IMO. If you look at hand two, most hands that he plays this way are worse than yours.

With a value bet you are looking to be called by a hand worse than yours in order for it to be profitable. This doesn't necessarily mean that it always has to be worse than yours.

unterfish · #4 12-29-2006, 10:48 PM

Hand 2 and 3: clear value-bets IMO.
Hand 1 is a little confusing though because the river card should look scary to villain, but he doesnt seem to care much.
But Im tending to a reraise here because I cannot imagine which holding he would be raising PF which beats you. He probably has the queen. That means he cannot have a better flush.
He might have a FH. But I think trip Qs is about equally likely.

VickreyAuction · #5 12-29-2006, 10:48 PM

Hand 1, I would checkraise the river.
In hand 2, you should definitely bet the river.
Hand 3 is a fold preflop. On the river, it's certainly unlikely that he has an ace, and it's very likely that he has an unpaired hand. Betting gets value the few times that he has KQ and is willing to call the river with it. So betting is better.

Smoke em' · #6 12-29-2006, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1, 3bet the river

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Are you afraid at all of villian having a full house? He could have been looking to get more callers on the flop with his 3 of a kind. The turn raise seems suspicious.

[ QUOTE ]
hand 2, bet the river

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[ QUOTE ]
hand 3, fold preflop. given that you didn't, your play is fine.

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I thought small pocket pairs were OK to play against loose/passive preflop players. I personally would have played this against many opponents.

2 and 3 are clear river bets, 1 I'm iffy about reraising.

CrMenace · #7 12-29-2006, 11:26 PM

*grunch*

In all of these situations, the villain has not given you any indication that you are beaten (hand 1 is the most credible signal, but you are more likely ahead of trips than you are behind a boat). This is especially the case without reads. You should bet/raise all of these rivers.

Boggy Depot · #8 12-29-2006, 11:43 PM

Looking at it now it seems that Hand 2 is an obvious value bet.

Hand 1 scared me off because villian didn't seem to care what I did or what came on the board. I figured he had the Queen but when he raised again once the possible flush came on the river I thought maybe Q9 or Q8.

Hand 3 I usually fold but the table had gone LP Preflop. Several hands prior had 5-8 players with no raises.

Is it safe to say that when it comes to value betting I only have to be right more than I'm wrong, but not necessarily a lot more, for it to be profitable?

justkevin · #9 12-30-2006, 12:16 AM

*grunch*

1st Hand:
Check raise the river, don't donk it. Villain is representing a strong hand and will bet. If he 3-bets, I cap, unless I have some respect for the villain.

2nd Hand:
Bet the river, the 4 is not a scare card. Another diamond would be a scare card.

3rd Hand:
Checking the river is fine. The villain may have a pair that still beats, and unpaired hand is unlikely to call a bet. He probably did not raise with anything involving a 2 or a 3.

Aaron W. · #10 12-30-2006, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand 3, fold preflop. given that you didn't, your play is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought small pocket pairs were OK to play against loose/passive preflop players. I personally would have played this against many opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is at a 9-handed table with 2 folds in front of him, so you should think of this as open-limping at a 7-handed table. I would basically never open-limp 55 at a 6-handed table (I would need some very unusual circumstances for that to happen).