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#1
12-25-2006, 12:46 PM
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top 2 pair on a paired board
only my second hand at the table so no read on villan. is this an easy fold?
Converted by PokerGeek Full Tilt NL Hold'em Ring - 0.25/0.50 Blinds (6 handed) Starting Stacks Seat 3: CO ($52.05) Seat 5: Small blind (Hero) ($49.50) Preflop: Hero is Small blind with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG calls ($0.50), <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls ($0.50), <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero raises ($2.50), Big blind folds, UTG folds, CO calls ($2) Flop: ($6.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero bets ($4), CO calls ($4) Turn: ($14.25) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero bets ($10), CO raises ($20), Hero? 
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#2
12-25-2006, 01:28 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
With no reads, easy fold. He called and reraised into pots after a PF raise. I'm a donk though, I'd be curious to see some other people's opinions.
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#4
12-25-2006, 03:13 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
Why not just call here and see if you have the best hand? You don't always have to raise or fold.
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#5
12-25-2006, 04:05 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
does anybody not bet the turn since you dont have to protect your hand against anything now...no draws or whatever. only if he houses up with his pocket pair he outdraws you. that way you can keep the pot smaller and call down moderate sized bets if you feel you have him beat.
also a line i sometimes take against predictable opponents is to check this flop. you dont really have to protect your hand against pocket pairs. the only scare card that comes up for you is a K really. this way, MOST opponents wont bet their trips went checked to. so if he bets you can be more sure he DOESN'T have trips and something lke KQ instead. You can also induce bluffs from people who are trying to outplay you. I think betting this flop with an aggressive player behind you is asking for him to represent trips by flat calling, raising turn, pushing river. i used to do it all the time until i realised FPS is a waste at micro. What you think of this line? The obvious problem is, is if you are always checking top pair on a board like this, and leading out with trips...your hand becomes transparent. So mix it up a bit by sometimes checking trips aswell.
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#6
12-25-2006, 04:12 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
[ QUOTE ]
With no reads, easy fold. He called and reraised into pots after a PF raise. I'm a donk though, I'd be curious to see some other people's opinions. [/ QUOTE ] lol @ thinking your hand was a bad beat. Your opinion is invalid, holla.
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#7
12-25-2006, 04:19 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] With no reads, easy fold. He called and reraised into pots after a PF raise. I'm a donk though, I'd be curious to see some other people's opinions. [/ QUOTE ] lol @ thinking your hand was a bad beat. Your opinion is invalid, holla. [/ QUOTE ] This really isn't needed, it's not productive, it doesn't help anything. It's just a derogatory remark. Your opinion *should* be invalid. FWIW - checking the turn here is pretty standard. It's not real draw-heavy, either he's got an 8 or he doesn't. He'll be more likely to pay off a river bet with KQ than a turn bet IMO. I would check here and bet the river the same amount.
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#8
12-25-2006, 04:19 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
[ QUOTE ]
Why not just call here and see if you have the best hand? You don't always have to raise or fold. [/ QUOTE ] The obviously problem with just calling here is that if you don't boat up on the river you are still faced with the same problem, except you now have more money invested in the pot. If you call, then you'll have to check the river and they will take a stab at it regardless if they have a hand or not. The smooth call on the flop should have set off some red flags for you; I think a check on the turn would have been better in terms of pot control. If you check the turn and our villain makes a weird bet than they most likely hold an 8. By making this check we gain a lot more information than by double firing twice at the pot. If our villain holds a draw than they will want to take a free river card and will not try to bluff the turn. If they check back on the turn than try to get some value on the river. As played, I think you have to fold, holla.
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#9
12-25-2006, 04:21 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] With no reads, easy fold. He called and reraised into pots after a PF raise. I'm a donk though, I'd be curious to see some other people's opinions. [/ QUOTE ] lol @ thinking your hand was a bad beat. Your opinion is invalid, holla. [/ QUOTE ] This really isn't needed, it's not productive, it doesn't help anything. It's just a derogatory remark. Your opinion *should* be invalid. FWIW - checking the turn here is pretty standard. It's not real draw-heavy, either he's got an 8 or he doesn't. He'll be more likely to pay off a river bet with KQ than a turn bet IMO. I would check here and bet the river the same amount. [/ QUOTE ] I already posted my opinion on the hand, which is a better version of your post, basically. lol @ stupidity, holla.
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#10
12-25-2006, 04:28 PM
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Re: top 2 pair on a paired board
he did limp PF, so an 8 possible. I definitely wouldn't fold this, I'd check the river and see what type of bet he puts out. If it's a reasonable bet, I'll call. A blocking bet on the river wouldn't be too bad either if he's the type to take advantage of weakness, a RR would most likely be an 8 or a chop.
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