just shoot me now

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding preflop strikes me as pretty close in EV to raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

[waffle]

Stating the obvious.

I think we have to call the river unless we know that these hands aren't in his range, given the way he played the rest of the hand:

78, 34, two clubs, ace high (sometimes).

What should our range of raising hands be on the turn? ("reading our own hand")

[Victor]

waffle, i would add worse 6 or counterfit pp.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Q6s is not nearly so marginal threehanded bob

[/ QUOTE ]

you're missing the point. (and not just you, so this post isn't directed only at you.) i get that we have position and that we are 3-handed. that is not the issue. the issue is that we have no idea what we are dealing with in terms of the BB. is he honest postflop? is he a spazz? does he try to induce bluffs? does he c/r any flop? will Q-high win here UI? will he 3bet with a wide range? how will he play differently HU vs. 3handed?

some hands are obvious raises regardless of who is in the blinds. some aren't. i have no problem raising all kinds of hands OTB, but I want to know what i'm dealing with before i get in there with something marginal. if he is a TAG, i may play one way postflop, whereas if he is weak i may play another or if he is a spazztardfecesspewingmoney i'll play yet another way. but now we have no clue and our preflop hand is marginal and we will be in unchartered waters postflop, so i'll pass and wait until i have a better read on BB before i challenge him with a marginal holding.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Q6s is not nearly so marginal threehanded bob

[/ QUOTE ]

wait, why is 3handed on the button different than 6handed on the button? what adjustments do you make preflop with your range?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard this many times and on some level I believe it, but here's the problem as I see it...3 handed your opponents are playing a lot more hands, the BB is basically never folding for one bet preflop and the button might raise in the dark (this is how some people play 3 handed not saying what is right). Because of this you clearly need to expand your range of hands to defend with or 3 bet with out of the SB just for pure value and so you won't get run over. If we need to therefore play more hands ourselves, doesn't it make sense to play as many of them as we can on the button?

Are you guys saying that the proper 3 handed strategy is to play the button just like you would when folded to you in a full game, but then play tons of hands in your blinds (because the other guys will play maniacally on their buttons)? This strikes me as difficult, the positional advantage is huge.

So yes, I play more hands on the button 3 handed than I do 6 handed or at a full table.

-DeathDonkey

[Victor]

so the bb defends more, and the sb 3bets more. now we want to raise more hands into these guys?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Q6s is not nearly so marginal threehanded bob

[/ QUOTE ]

wait, why is 3handed on the button different than 6handed on the button? what adjustments do you make preflop with your range?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard this many times and on some level I believe it, but here's the problem as I see it...3 handed your opponents are playing a lot more hands, the BB is basically never folding for one bet preflop and the button might raise in the dark (this is how some people play 3 handed not saying what is right). Because of this you clearly need to expand your range of hands to defend with or 3 bet with out of the SB just for pure value and so you won't get run over. If we need to therefore play more hands ourselves, doesn't it make sense to play as many of them as we can on the button?

Are you guys saying that the proper 3 handed strategy is to play the button just like you would when folded to you in a full game, but then play tons of hands in your blinds (because the other guys will play maniacally on their buttons)? This strikes me as difficult, the positional advantage is huge.

So yes, I play more hands on the button 3 handed than I do 6 handed or at a full table.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Given everything you've said there folding Q6s hardly seems "crazy."

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
so the bb defends more, and the sb 3bets more. now we want to raise more hands into these guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, because we need to play enough hands to not get run over and I'd rather play them on the button than in the blinds. Do you disagree? I don't think you guys understand what I said or I said it poorly. We need to find hands to play somewhere, would you rather be in position or out of position? If the answer is you will defend your blinds a whole lot more and play tight on the button, fine, but please explain that argument to me because I just don't understand it.

-DeathDonkey

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so the bb defends more, and the sb 3bets more. now we want to raise more hands into these guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, because we need to play enough hands to not get run over and I'd rather play them on the button than in the blinds. Do you disagree? I don't think you guys understand what I said or I said it poorly. We need to find hands to play somewhere, would you rather be in position or out of position? If the answer is you will defend your blinds a whole lot more and play tight on the button, fine, but please explain that argument to me because I just don't understand it.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

this is my argument. if a hand is -ev on the button 6handed, i cant figure out how it all of a sudden becomes profitable if we are 3handed.

[milesdyson]

yeah i don't think it makes a difference. also, 6-handed when it gets folded to me, i raise almost 50% of the time. i know other people raise more than this on the button. i don't think it should be any different, and maybe it just seems like you're raising a ton simply because it's always "folded to you" when you're the button 3-handed.