The hand that sunk me very deep in FT 109 short handed

[BomberMase]

Just re-read the title of this post. Sorry to hear it man. I take it you called?

[starstx]

I agree with Bomber. I lead out here with 50+% of the pot. You checked no reason for him not to bet with anything. Then you just called, he smelled weakness and pushed. Now you still have a good hand but No Idea what he has. He could have a K or nothing but you gave him no reason to play it any other way even with nada.

Now if you lead out say bet 50+% after he checks. He is either going to fold. He might just call so now you can put him on some sort of hand. Or he comes over the top.

Either way you've picked up some information, can still get away from the hand if he calls or raises.

[eBo]

I like checking behind on the flop. If you bet/fold the flop, then you turn your QQ into 72.

The river could be a tough call.

[betgo]

I call the river. People don't usually flat call raises with a K, particularly in the 100r where they are mostly not complete donks.

I like check/calling the whole way fine. I don't mind betting the flop. However, if I do, I don't know if I fold to a raise.

If you busted with this hand, fine. That is better than playing weak/tight.

[Cornell Fiji]

I agree with the fact that you are turning your QQ into 72 but I still think that the best way to play the hand is to make your bluff and then move on if you lose.

Yes, this allows the villain to c/r bluff you with AQ, JJ, or 99 but it forces him to make a decission for all of his chips and you are much more likely to get bluffed off of your hand if you check through on the flop.

A king, AA, and a set are all in your range so it would take some major cojones for the villain to bluff you off of this pot and if he has the balls to make that play then you just have to tip your cap and say nice hand.

[starstx]

Well I am saying you "could" get away from the hand. I would lead out 50+% of the pot and if he calls play it all the way through. I just don't know what I would do with an all-in re-raise after the flop and my bet.

I'd prefer to fire at the pot instead of check calling personally.

The way this played out I don't like being put in this position.

[Bond18]

I made a major mistake in titling this post the way i did. I won't do that next time, becuase now some people are reading this with the mindset of "how can we avoid losing chips?"

Heres how i read his river bet, he either has KQ/KJ and has me or i've forced him into a situation with AQ/AJ 99/88/77 that forces him into a bluff if he wants to have any chips (if checks knowing he'll lose he'll have 9 BB's left in a short handed tournament.)

I guess my thinking with this line is that when i bet the flop im not sure i can lay it down (if you want tell me with some clear thinking why i should definately fold here if i cont bet flop, im willing to listen to reason), and since i don't really think im going to lay down (again, i see 2 hands in his range KQ/KJ that should have us beat) by checking i force him into this kind of spot where he feels like he MUST bluff at me in order to get the pot.

[BomberMase]

Well if that's your mindset, then there's nothing wrong at all here. That was your dream scenario, he made his bluff so now you call it. The problem is you really don't know what he's doing. The c-bet on the flop is designed to give you a better idea of what he's up to before a lot of chips go into the pot. If you c-bet (12k)and he re-raises you, you're screwed unless he's making a balls out bluff. You can step away from this hand 22k down, but nowhere near out. If he just calls? Well it's time to re-evaluate but it's not looking too good. Best there would be if he has a lower pp. If he called my c-bet, then made a strong bet on the turn, I would likely give this up. Other than a stone-cold bluff what's he doing this with? I'm not going to throw away my chips because I have a pretty hand that I don't want to lose. Besides aces preflop, or being grossly pot-commited, there isn't any situation where you should say, I'm not letting this go, especially when the situation is an overcard hit to your pp. I understand it's frustrating, but when you're beat, you're beat.

Try to put yourself in his shoes for a moment. You raised preflop, showing strength. Flop comes (25,000) Check, Check. Turn he stabs at it, bets 16,000 you call saying you're interested in this pot (57,000). Then he pushes the river for his last 34,000. I just can't imagine what holding he has that justifies this, and we're ahead of. I feel like if he was running a bluff that you just lowered the boom on him when you called and he'd put the brakes on.

I really think you need to find out where you stand earlier in this hand. We're heading down a dark alley with our eyes closed, gaining no information along the way. I'm trying really hard to piece this together, but all I can come up with is to next time be more decisive. If you dropped dead after his bet on the river and I had to take your place and play the hand, I would be angry that this guy sucked a king out, fold my hand, take the 53,500 chips I still have, and play it out. Notice the difference between my two choices also. If I c-bet, then fold to what I believe is a king, I've lost 22,500. If I check the flop, call the turn, then he moves in and I realize I'm beat, I fold and lose 26,500. So in this way, c-betting actually made me 4,000 chips as opposed to checking.

[TheNewf]

Everything up til the river is perfect and the river is pretty close either way and basically comes down to your read of the opponent. If he's the type to bluff a lot it's an easy call, if he's more passive postflop then you should fold. It's definitely hard to put him on a specific hand here postflop but KQ/KJ/TT/55/KTs/22 all seem possible given your read that he's a little too loose preflop. It's definitely close but use whatever you know about his postfop tendencies to make your decision.

[mic_check12]

[ QUOTE ]
Everything up til the river is perfect and the river is pretty close either way and basically comes down to your read of the opponent. If he's the type to bluff a lot it's an easy call, if he's more passive postflop then you should fold. It's definitely hard to put him on a specific hand here postflop but KQ/KJ/TT/55/KTs/22 all seem possible given your read that he's a little too loose preflop. It's definitely close but use whatever you know about his postfop tendencies to make your decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. Betting flop sucks