Moderate Muslims and Catholics-Nice But Dumb?

[Yo_Respek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Atheists are stupid because they refuse to prepare for the possibility that there could be a God.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Atheists are the dumbest group of people on the face of the Earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

2/10

Your post was reasonable and then it descended into this trite. I was going to respond, now I'm not going to bother.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right I should have said that Atheism is illogical and irrational. At the very least it is a very risky position to take. Similar to playing 72 offsuit. The reason it leaves no chance to be wrong. If you believe in nothing you either get nothing or hell if you are wrong. If I believe in ANY religion that advocates eternal life I have a better chance mathmatically of living forever in "heaven" than someone who doesn't believe in anything.

[luvrhino]

[ QUOTE ]
Atheists are stupid because they refuse to prepare for the possibility that there could be a God. Eternal life seems better than rotting in a hole somewhere with no conciousness. As an atheist you can take whatever approach you want to try to make yourself feel confident that you are making the right decision. But you have to be 100 percent sure with NO DOUBT whatsoever for Atheism to be a +EV decision. Atheists are the dumbest group of people on the face of the Earth. They are very smart in humanist ways. Usually Science or Math. The irony is that the things they excell at the most are the things that prove that they are wrong. It's hilarious seeing an atheist explain his position.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pascal's Wager has been discussed at length, elsewhere, so I'll keep it brief. Basically, if god(s) exist, what makes you think that god(s) would prefer one insincerely believe in them solely as a failsafe?

Might a diety not prefer a person to be a strong atheist who's honest and consistent over the pseudo-agnostic who lies to himself just in case?

Then again, I'm one of the "dumbest group of people on the face of the Earth," so what do I know?

[Eulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Atheists are stupid because they refuse to prepare for the possibility that there could be a God.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Atheists are the dumbest group of people on the face of the Earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

2/10

Your post was reasonable and then it descended into this trite. I was going to respond, now I'm not going to bother.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right I should have said that Atheism is illogical and irrational. At the very least it is a very risky position to take. Similar to playing 72 offsuit. The reason it leaves no chance to be wrong. If you believe in nothing you either get nothing or hell if you are wrong. If I believe in ANY religion that advocates eternal life I have a better chance mathmatically of living forever in "heaven" than someone who doesn't believe in anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

This falsely assumes that "god" requires your belief in him as a prerequisite for admittance into heaven. Taken to its extreme this position is ridiculous and untenable. An atheist who devotes his life to helping the poor, but never *ahem* "accepts jesus" will ALWAYS go to hell. Where as a serial killer who sincerely asks for forgiveness before death will still be admitted to heaven?

[Eulysses]

Guess I got here two minutes too late to refute Pascal's Wager.

[Piemaster]

There is another problem with Pascal's wager that is less often cited. It assumes belief is something that can be switched on and off at will.

Let's say I promised you a million dollars if you believed in dragons. Let's also say you are 100% honest, or I had a 100% fail safe way of telling if you were lying (like God does). It is +EV for you to believe in dragons. You want to believe in dragons. Unfortunately you don't, you can't, you just don't believe in them.

It is the same for an atheist. They are not an atheist because they have chosen to be one. They are not an atheist just to piss off religeous people. The are an atheist because they don't believe in God. Even if they wanted to believe in God (most don't because they realise the stupidity of it all) they couldn't, because belief is not some something you can manufacture.

[benjdm]

[ QUOTE ]
If you believe in nothing you either get nothing or hell if you are wrong. If I believe in ANY religion that advocates eternal life I have a better chance mathmatically of living forever in "heaven" than someone who doesn't believe in anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know you've already been refuted, but to add: there are also an infinite number of conceivable Gods who will reward non-believers with living forever in "heaven" while condemning believers to hell or destruction. Believing carries no less and no more risk than not believing.

[F Paulsson]

Since Karen Armstrong has been named once, I just wanted to recommend her book "History of God" as well. It covers the history of all three of the judeo-based religions and their respective evolution through the centuries. The very fact that religions have - in some cases fundamentally - changed over time is in itself interesting. If the people who wrote the book to begin with didn't believe what the people who read it today thinks that it means, it... Well, it puts it in perspective.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
In the early days of Islam the religion was spread by holy war, Mohammed leading the first of these. The later suras in the Qur'an have phrases such as "fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them" and "fight those who do not believe in Allah". These contradict the earlier phrase "let there be no compulsion in religion". Liberalists may use that earlier phrase as justification as Islam being a peaceful religion, however in cases where there is contradiction in Qur'an Islamic teaching instructs Muslims to obey the later command. From what I personally understand of Islam and the teachings of the Qur'an I don't see how it could be construed as a peaceful religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the sort of thing I was talking about. You are "quoting" from the Koran without citing the verses, which most people do automatically with the Bible. Even if I was citing something from a poker book, I would give a page number.

Doing an online search of the Koran, I can't find these passages. That doesn't mean they aren't there, as diffenent translations use different words to interpret the same passage. But I hope you see the problem. If you are going to cite a passage in the Koran, that most would agree shines a negative light on it, then cite the place where it is written. It also wouldn't hurt to mention which translation you're citing. But at least give us the chapter and verse.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Koran said such nasty things, wouldn't it be quoted?

From what I've read, the Bible is far worse than the Koran.


[/ QUOTE ]

Having browsed the Koran some more, and found some pretty ugly things in it, I must now reverse myself. The Koran if far worse that the Bible.

Just check out Chapter 9 for starters. web page

[benjdm]

[ QUOTE ]
Having browsed the Koran some more, and found some pretty ugly things in it, I must now reverse myself. The Koran if far worse that the Bible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since both books explicitly command my death, I don't think either one can be 'far' worse than the other.