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#451
11-21-2005, 10:00 PM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] had been made by Lee Jones, Rolf Slotboom, or Paul Phillips, among others. [/ QUOTE ] Lee would've folded to the three-bet pre-flop, no? Barron Vangor Toth so much to catch up on.... [/ QUOTE ] and Rofl wouldnt have raised in the first place. 
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#452
11-22-2005, 12:05 AM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
Just to remind everyone what the question was in the first place: [ QUOTE ] What happen was that a player raised to $40 and then got reraised to $150. The original raiser then folded and showed AQ. His opponent then showed JJ. This of course started a discussion as to which hand was better. Most of the table agreed that the pair of jacks were better since they would win over 50 percent of the time in a show down. Then someone said, "Let's ask Mason since he writes all the books." My answer was that if someone was all-in, the jacks would be better, but if they each had chips left, which was the case here, the ace-queen suited was better. Well, no one understood what I was talking about. No wonder the games are good. [/ QUOTE ] And clarification from Mason re: what the question is: [ QUOTE ] The question is regardless as to whether it is right or wrong to call the raise, if you do go ahead and call it, which hand would you now rather have. (Of course in reality if you hold the ace-queen you don't know that your opponent holds precisely jacks and vice-versa.) [/ QUOTE ] Mason, you are just plain wrong in your assertion that the answer to this question is AQs (using YOUR assumptions, which I believe are nowhere close to correct, but that is beside the point). I have tried multiple times in this thread to explain where you got confused, but you seem to refuse to even attempt to understand where you went wrong in your logic. It is very dissappointing to me to see such advice so vehemently and arrogantly defended by 2+2. [/ QUOTE ] Do you want to lay odds that he is going to blow a gasket before he changes his position?
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#453
11-22-2005, 12:31 AM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Just to remind everyone what the question was in the first place: [ QUOTE ] What happen was that a player raised to $40 and then got reraised to $150. The original raiser then folded and showed AQ. His opponent then showed JJ. This of course started a discussion as to which hand was better. Most of the table agreed that the pair of jacks were better since they would win over 50 percent of the time in a show down. Then someone said, "Let's ask Mason since he writes all the books." My answer was that if someone was all-in, the jacks would be better, but if they each had chips left, which was the case here, the ace-queen suited was better. Well, no one understood what I was talking about. No wonder the games are good. [/ QUOTE ] And clarification from Mason re: what the question is: [ QUOTE ] The question is regardless as to whether it is right or wrong to call the raise, if you do go ahead and call it, which hand would you now rather have. (Of course in reality if you hold the ace-queen you don't know that your opponent holds precisely jacks and vice-versa.) [/ QUOTE ] Mason, you are just plain wrong in your assertion that the answer to this question is AQs (using YOUR assumptions, which I believe are nowhere close to correct, but that is beside the point). I have tried multiple times in this thread to explain where you got confused, but you seem to refuse to even attempt to understand where you went wrong in your logic. It is very dissappointing to me to see such advice so vehemently and arrogantly defended by 2+2. [/ QUOTE ] Do you want to lay odds that he is going to blow a gasket before he changes his position? [/ QUOTE ] I'll give you 10:1 on up to $1k.
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#454
11-22-2005, 02:03 AM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Just to remind everyone what the question was in the first place: [ QUOTE ] What happen was that a player raised to $40 and then got reraised to $150. The original raiser then folded and showed AQ. His opponent then showed JJ. This of course started a discussion as to which hand was better. Most of the table agreed that the pair of jacks were better since they would win over 50 percent of the time in a show down. Then someone said, "Let's ask Mason since he writes all the books." My answer was that if someone was all-in, the jacks would be better, but if they each had chips left, which was the case here, the ace-queen suited was better. Well, no one understood what I was talking about. No wonder the games are good. [/ QUOTE ] And clarification from Mason re: what the question is: [ QUOTE ] The question is regardless as to whether it is right or wrong to call the raise, if you do go ahead and call it, which hand would you now rather have. (Of course in reality if you hold the ace-queen you don't know that your opponent holds precisely jacks and vice-versa.) [/ QUOTE ] Mason, you are just plain wrong in your assertion that the answer to this question is AQs (using YOUR assumptions, which I believe are nowhere close to correct, but that is beside the point). I have tried multiple times in this thread to explain where you got confused, but you seem to refuse to even attempt to understand where you went wrong in your logic. It is very dissappointing to me to see such advice so vehemently and arrogantly defended by 2+2. [/ QUOTE ] Do you want to lay odds that he is going to blow a gasket before he changes his position? [/ QUOTE ] I'll give you 1000000000000:1 on all the money I own.
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#457
11-22-2005, 10:11 AM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Everyone: I thought I would pass along a little discussion that I took part in tonight. I've been trying to play some no limit hold 'em since it has become so popular and we are publishing books on this subject, so earlier this evening I was sitting in a $5-$10 blind no limit game at The Wynn. What happen was that a player raised to $40 and then got reraised to $150. The original raiser then folded and showed A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. His opponent then showed J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. This of course started a discussion as to which hand was better. Most of the table agreed that the pair of jacks were better since they would win over 50 percent of the time in a show down. Then someone said, "Let's ask Mason since he writes all the books." My answer was that if someone was all-in, the jacks would be better, but if they each had chips left, which was the case here, the ace-queen suited was better. Well, no one understood what I was talking about. No wonder the games are good. Best wishes, Mason [/ QUOTE ] Clearly, all-in JJ holds a slight edge on AQs. But when AQs raises in early position and gets reraised with lots of chips left to bet, it has a problem. Assuming decent play, the reraising hand is likely to be AA-TT and AK. So, out of position it has 3 outs + a potential flush draw against AA(3), KK (6), QQ (3) and AK (12) hands in the range, and will be trailing JJ/TT (12) on most flops. AQs flops a pair or better 32% of the time, but can it ever be sure it has TPTK? It flops a flush or flush draw 12% of the time, but draws out of position are difficult to handle correctly. If you are implying that AQs should not have folded out of position to a legit raise (not some maniac) because there were chips left to bet, I disagree.
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#458
11-22-2005, 10:20 AM
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Re: Player Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
In othe words, someone else would gladly take over Player A's position (he holds the ace-queen suited) from that point on if he didn't have to put in the original $40, and that was the point of my answer. [/ QUOTE ] No. Money already in the pot belongs to the pot. The analysis is no different whether Player A is facing the raise, or whether player A goes to the bathroom and someone sits in for him. The reason AQs folds is because of the range of hands it is facing, not JJ. If everyone knew it was JJ, even the original player A would call (getting 205:110 from the pot).
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#459
11-22-2005, 10:36 AM
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Re: Player Discussion
Let me guess you didn't read through the previous hundreds of replies before posting. I agree with now locking this thread.
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#460
11-22-2005, 10:52 AM
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Re: Player Discussion
I was hoping that an apology from Mason would address his the attitude he displayed in the threads. He actually says that "I'll let others elaborate" crap? doesn't look good, especially from an owner/head of 2p2.
once, I had an argument with El D where I insisted that running the turn and river more than twice could change the EV of a race. I managed to realize and admit I was wrong after about 4 posts. I'm not even sure that this question is more complicated.
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