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#1
02-03-2006, 11:17 AM
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Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
this situation comes up often enough. Second hand of the tournament. UTG minraises. I am in the CO with QQ. I reraise to 100 (blinds 10/15). Folds back to UTG, who calls.
Flop comes QT6 rainbow. UTG checks. What do I do? Does it even matter? A check here looks ridiculous and suspicious. A too small bet may give him proper odds to continue with his hand. A pot sized bet looks too strong. An overbet is unlikely to get called. I've been experimenting with too small bets or overbets. I've thought about slowplaying to the river and giving him a chance to catch a hand. What do others do? 
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#2
02-03-2006, 11:18 AM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
bet out about 1/2 the pot, if he caught a piece it will look like a continuation bet and maybe induce him to raise, if he didn't catch it (or have an overpair) he's going to fold no matter what.
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#3
02-03-2006, 11:25 AM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
[ QUOTE ]
this situation comes up often enough. Second hand of the tournament. UTG minraises. I am in the CO with QQ. I reraise to 100 (blinds 10/15). Folds back to UTG, who calls. Flop comes QT6 rainbow. UTG checks. What do I do? Does it even matter? A check here looks ridiculous and suspicious. A too small bet may give him proper odds to continue with his hand. A pot sized bet looks too strong. An overbet is unlikely to get called. I've been experimenting with too small bets or overbets. I've thought about slowplaying to the river and giving him a chance to catch a hand. What do others do? [/ QUOTE ] I'm confused. You've got top set with no flush draw. If he's behind, don't you WANT him to call and continue? On this flop, the only draw you'd really fear is a straight draw. Bet as much as you think he's going to call. I'd bet 1/2 pot to full pot here.
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#4
02-03-2006, 11:25 AM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
You don't want to give AJ, AK, KJ or J9 a free draw at a straight. One thing about flopping a set is that no one is ever going to put you on it if you just keep betting like you normally do. If anything, your hand is more disguised the more aggressive you are with it. Bet 3/4 of the pot and hope you get some action. If not, no big deal.
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#5
02-03-2006, 11:54 AM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
[ QUOTE ]
A too small bet may give him proper odds to continue with his hand. [/ QUOTE ] what is wrong with this? the only drawing hand that can suck out on you is the straight, but let's suppose the straight possibility is not there. so many people believe you should not give someone the proper odds to call. You have hit a set, top set i might add. you want to get as much VALUE as you can. Whatever way you see that will get as many chips going in to the pot as possible is the correct play. you can't be scared of the 2 outers to a higher set. Note: in this hand because of the straight possibility, i wouldn't make it too cheap, i would give him borderline odds to draw to a straight. if i get sucked out on, then i resuck on river.
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#6
02-03-2006, 11:56 AM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
225 in the pot, I probably bet 150 50% of the time and 200 50% of the time. On a QT6r flop I would usually bet the same 150-200 with AA, KK, AK, AQ, AJ, AT, TT, 66, JJ, KJ, J9, and occasionally some other hands, including weaker tens, middle pairs, and bluffs, although some of the time I would check some of those. The point of course being that unless you are a total nit there are plenty of hands he has to call with the times you have top set. Some opponents fold to preflop raisers too often; if you are against one fo them here, tough. The point versus that type isn't to trap them with top set but to bet bet bet with weaker hands. Early in the tourney, this can be a decent time to bet, get a fold, and show, assuming you plan on playing aggressively with weaker hands in the near future..
*Obviously I wouldn't have reraised some of those that often preflop.
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#7
02-03-2006, 11:58 AM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
I like a smaller bet he as it will build a pot and if this has hit villian, he may play back. An overbet, if he missed, will chase him off. 1/2 pot would be my play.
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#8
02-03-2006, 12:01 PM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A too small bet may give him proper odds to continue with his hand. [/ QUOTE ] what is wrong with this? the only drawing hand that can suck out on you is the straight, but let's suppose the straight possibility is not there. so many people believe you should not give someone the proper odds to call. You have hit a set, top set i might add. you want to get as much VALUE as you can. Whatever way you see that will get as many chips going in to the pot as possible is the correct play. you can't be scared of the 2 outers to a higher set. Note: in this hand because of the straight possibility, i wouldn't make it too cheap, i would give him borderline odds to draw to a straight. if i get sucked out on, then i resuck on river. [/ QUOTE ] You're half way there. Yes, the priority is getting max value, not protecting against draws. But you don't get max value by betting 75 and hoping they have a ten and will pay you off a little, you get max value by betting 150 or 200 and having done it often enough that they think you're full of [censored] and call or even checkraise with a ten, or 99, or a weak draw, or nothing.
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#9
02-03-2006, 12:06 PM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
Everything that has been said is fine. There's no point slow playing - you want money in the pot and you don't want him drawing for free.
The manin problem is that he doesn't know you and your betting patterns so I don't think you should worry too much about getting tricky. If you were mid-tourny and had been making c/bets every time you raised then you would make another but in this case you're only going to get money if he has a piece of the flop or has a PP which he's reluctant to let go. I would bet the pot. You may get lucky and he has also hit a lower set or two pair or may just figure you're pushing him around. The bigger you can make the pot, the more difficult it will be for him to get away from it on turn and river and you can value bet all the way down. Alternatively, given that he will probably fold to any bet except a pointless little one, you could set out your stall. Decide what your standard continuation bet is going to be from now on, bet that much and then show your cards when he folds.
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#10
02-03-2006, 12:08 PM
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Re: Too Perfect Flop -- What line do you take?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A too small bet may give him proper odds to continue with his hand. [/ QUOTE ] what is wrong with this? the only drawing hand that can suck out on you is the straight, but let's suppose the straight possibility is not there. so many people believe you should not give someone the proper odds to call. You have hit a set, top set i might add. you want to get as much VALUE as you can. Whatever way you see that will get as many chips going in to the pot as possible is the correct play. you can't be scared of the 2 outers to a higher set. Note: in this hand because of the straight possibility, i wouldn't make it too cheap, i would give him borderline odds to draw to a straight. if i get sucked out on, then i resuck on river. [/ QUOTE ] You're half way there. Yes, the priority is getting max value, not protecting against draws. But you don't get max value by betting 75 and hoping they have a ten and will pay you off a little, you get max value by betting 150 or 200 and having done it often enough that they think you're full of [censored] and call or even checkraise with a ten, or 99, or a weak draw, or nothing. [/ QUOTE ] that is what i said right? getting as many chips going into the pot as you think is possible.
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