Drastic adjustments between stars and party sngs?

[skeemer1]

I 9 tabled the party $30 & $50 sngs for almost a year with good results, 18% ROI & 41% ITM, through about 6000 games (with a 43% ITM & 37% ROI in the last 800 or so games on there) but with the recent legislation i have been forced to move to stars. I decided to start at the $25 turbos just to adjust to the differences in structure, but thru about 500 tourneys i only have a 35% ITM & 4.6% ROI.... I know i have not been playing as well as possible, but i havent played THAT bad. I am just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience and what adjustments typically need to be made?

[alex-star]

Yep, different blinds structure did me in for the first few weeks. I started at $15 turbos, and found them a lot harder than $20's on PP.

[littlepotato]

I just saw a lot of bad beats happend in PS, 1:3 favor lost so many times, I wonder whether PS is rigged, so the good players cannot take the money from bad plays easily. So more tables more profit.

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
I just saw a lot of bad beats happend in PS, 1:3 favor lost so many times, I wonder whether PS is rigged, so the good players cannot take the money from bad plays easily. So more tables more profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, yeah and Party is clean ... the reason my big pocket pairs always loose to Ace-rag is because my understanding of poker is flawed and hitting the ace is in fact a skill

[Shillx]

There is a big difference. The antes make things a lot easier but from what I've seen people that used to play on Party have not been making the proper adjustments. They fold way too much pre-bubble and then push too often on the bubble.

[BvlyHls90210]

Goddamnit these posts tick me off. You are making money, be happy with it. Some people actually lose money, fyi.

[skeemer1]

thats what i was thinking as well. Also, one big difference i notice is how often players will limp the button at 50/100 thru 100/200, and bet the flop when it is checked to them. I am not sure if this is a profitable strategy, letting 2 players see a flop with no information on their hands, but it seems to be working for the most part as they take down about 90% of the time.

I am not sure i understand what you meant by "the antes make things a lot easier" as they are typically insignificant, but i do agree that i find myself pushing too much 5 and 4 handed.

Here is a basic comparison i did between them:
Party: 2000 chips/player; 20K chips in play
Stars: 1500 chips/player; 13.5K chips in play

<u>Level</u>... <u>Blinds(PP:PS)</u> ... <u>BB/Player(PP:PS)</u> ... <u>BB in play(PP:PS)</u>
1..........20/40:10/20............50:75................500:675
2..........30/60:15/30............33.3:50..............333:450
3.........50/100:25/50............20:30................200:270
4.........100/200:50/100..........10:15................100:135
5.........200/400:75/150..........5:10.................50:90
6.......300/600:100/200.........3.33:7.5.............33.3:67.5
7.....400/800 25:100/200 25...2.5:7.5..............25:67.5
8...600/1200 50:200/400 25....1.67:3.75...........16.7:33.75
9....1000/2000 75:300/600 50...1:2.5...............10:22.5
10..1500/3000 75:400/800 50.....&lt;1:1.9.............6.7:17.1

Party sngs typically end in levels 6 or 7, while stars sngs typically end in levels 8 or 9.

So since stars usually has about twice as many big blinds in play during the mid to late stages of the tournament, blind stealing should be done less frequently. The big adjustment in going from party to stars seems to be getting used to playing the 75/150 level and two levels of 100/200, as these are very often the make-or-break points.

Also, ROI will also drop from the fact that the payouts are smaller due to 9 handed tables. I first believed that this would be partly offset by having one less player, hence increasing %ITM, but it seems that this isn't the case, most likely because the additional player is more than likely a fish that is just adding to the prize pool.

[skeemer1]

I am fully aware of that, but when playing is your main source of income it is not nice to take an 80% pay cut.....

[linuxrocks]

I believe the difference is in player pool rather than the structure itself. I have been checking each and every one of my pushes/calls in SNGWiz and I don't seem to be making any huge mistakes.

The big difference is that players are lot tougher. I see at least three regulars in 27s and even though only a few of them are real solid, they know the basics of ICM, pushing etc. People know about non-exploitable pushes and push more often. There is only so much you can do with all this. I have rarely seen people pushing with crap on Party even at 55s. On PS, people have no qualms pushing 32o and they are actually right to do so some times !

I am paying more attention to players than the ICM part itself now.

In short, the variance is high, ROI is lower. You have to live with it unfortunately.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
I am fully aware of that, but when playing is your main source of income it is not nice to take an 80% pay cut.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Its been 500 tourneys, gimme a break.

But ok, yuor results probably will be less good on Stars