Finance Job questions

[ceczar]

{quote] I will graduate in May, and then can receive my MBA in 18 months, is this worth getting if I want to pursue trading derivatives and maybe a hedge fund down the line? Also, what other certificates look good for these types of positions?

[/ QUOTE ]

go through both processes (applying to jobs and applying to the MBA program). if you have a good offer from a good firm doing something you want to do, skip the MBA and go directly to that (especially if it's trading).
if you don't get a job that is what you want or directly leading to what you want, then it's worth getting the MBA, because that is a better use of your time than treading water in a career you don't really care about, and it will help you get those jobs you couldnt' get this year (even if the MBA program isn't that great, but this is the only situation i'd recommend a MBA from a non-top school)

[PokerZombi]

Let's not kid ourselves by flashing the big numbers. Finding good trading jobs is not easy. Some are terrible some are great. Even if you do know what to look for it doesn't necessarily mean you will get paid. e.g. your boss has to not screw you over, he has to have good political standing, the overall business (not just your desk) has to be doing well, you have to make money and so on. If you do luck out I think it's the best finance job.

The other thing alot of you don't realize is hedge funds are a much riskier proposition than banks. While you hear stories of senior people getting paid sick amounts at hedge funds (more than an equivalent position at a bank), they are taking a larger risk with their career.

For example, alot of hedge funds get you to sign non-compete agreements where if you leave or get fired you may be 'locked up' for some amount of time so you can't work for some period even if you wanted to. That opportunity cost can be pretty costly if you've worked your way up and getting paid good bonus to work. Sometimes the lock up is short and sometimes it can be a few years! Being able to change jobs freely in this business is worth alot. Alot of hedgefunds may also defer a large chunk of your year-end bonus for x-years so if you happen to lose money, or want to leave the company you lose that 'bonus'. Unless you're at the very top of the food chain (i.e. you started the fund, or someone at the top is looking out for you) the chance of being screwed can be significant. There are many ways they can screw you. It's more difficult to assess how good an opportunity at a fund really is vs at the banks where things are more standardized.

If you are joining a hedge fund at entry level, you are perhaps taking a bigger risk. At banks there's more of a hierarchal increase in your pay. Pay can be more arbitrary at hedge funds. After a few years it could be spectacular or maybe you get screwed big time, not get paid a bonus and they decide to lay off or the fund blows up (and don't forget the non-compete 'lockup' period). When that happens you'll have to look for a job and then people will question you incredulously why you left. They'll be thinking why hire someone from a 'sketchy' hedgefund? Even if it was a reputable one.

Mine had a great reputation until it blew up.

[ep510]

Hi Rock,

Thanks for the responses. They've been very helpful.

I was wondering how difficult it is to get into trading straight from an undergraduate degree vs. MBA (I'm an Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Major at Berkeley). If I can't find a trading internship, what other finance internships will prepare me best (i.e. ibanking or something) for a trading job? Also, how is something like a Masters in Financial Engineering viewed?

Thanks ahead of time.

Eric

[mikechops]

Hey rock. The $$$ in finance sound good. What was it, 500K+ in year 3? Could you tell us what the dropout rate is? what % make it to year 3 before either cracking up or being asked to leave?

BTW. I have no interest in a job in finance. Just curious.

[rock1]

to be honest, i think trading desks actually prefer getting smart guys/girls out of undergrad as opposed to MBAs (at worst its a toss up)...your background is very well suited

as for what other internships "prepare" you for trading...well, none really...but the reality is that you arent going to change the world during the internship...you are trying to just get a good internship, and then use that to get a job by the end of the summer...as a junior, dont worry about not getting a trading internship (although it would be nice)...you should get any good finance internship u can - sales and trading, ibanking, consulting...

good luck

[rock1]

i think my 500k+ is too aggressive actually (that ismuch more likely for an MBA than for an undergrad)...in fact, its only going to be the very top undergrads that are at 500k+ by year 3...i'd say 250k-500k much more likely for undergrad and 500k+ for mba in year 3...this whole thing is very very generalized though, and there are always exceptions to everything...

but like i said, its not about the 300k or 500k that u make in year 3...its about what being there puts u in position to achieve by year 5+

[derosnec]

mention poker on resume/at interview?

[derosnec]

What do you think of DS's Fundamental Theorem of Investing? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[rock1]

definitely on resume...plently of finance people love poker/will ask about it...be a little more careful with people that dont ask about it

[cata1yst]

rock1,

I graduated with a dual degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Engineering and a minor in Mathematics. Ever since I graduated I wanted to go back and get my MBA. I currently work in the automotive industry (I know bad beat). Is it necessary to have an MBA to get into I-Banking? I am really interested in that type of career. I am kind of cautious about applying to MBA programs though because I am not sure how my engineering degrees may look. I also have a crappy 2.9 GPA (is that weighted as heavily as the GMAT scores?). Is there any particular reason you and your wife got out of these types of jobs? Hours? High stress?

What would you suggest as a discipline for someone like myself when going back to get an MBA?

Thanks.