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| View Poll Results: Do my friends owe for Sunday night? | |||
| Yes, cheap bastards |
   
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60 | 61.86% |
| No, you are the cheap bastard |
  
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37 | 38.14% |
| Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#391
10-12-2006, 07:08 PM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
if part of our plan is control of d4, i'll support Bc5 and a subsequent castle. development should be the goal right now; i don't think we should be making needless queen moves just yet.
most openings i used to play don't lead to isolated pawn positions, so i'm very meh on everything so far. 
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#392
10-12-2006, 07:37 PM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
[ QUOTE ]
if part of our plan is control of d4, i'll support Bc5 and a subsequent castle. development should be the goal right now; i don't think we should be making needless queen moves just yet. most openings i used to play don't lead to isolated pawn positions, so i'm very meh on everything so far. [/ QUOTE ] Im with shortline. When can we vote? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Then when others chime in I will want to revote again. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#393
10-12-2006, 08:55 PM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to become the Irina Krush of this match, doing reams of analysis and the World mindlessly following my suggestions [/ QUOTE ] I had that same thought when I got the PM. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#394
10-12-2006, 09:28 PM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
i just hope no one is planning on having our knight sticking around on b4 for very long, because it won't be.
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#396
10-13-2006, 01:14 AM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
OK so the whole point of the last move was to play Bf5 now. If we don't play Bf5, then Nb4 was a pointless move, which is what I thought of it when I first looked at it. The line runs:
... Nb4 Qb3 Bf5 Nd4 Be4 At this point I just don't see that White has good options. f3 looks ugly to me, the king is starting to look distinctly draughty on the dark squares and it shuts off the powerful bishop. Bc5 and Qb6/Qa5 are both coming. Any other move trades off the powerful light square bishop. [ QUOTE ] If you plan to play Be4 instead, you are committing yourself to exchanging on g2, which gains you nothing - you are simply exchanging minor pieces which is the goal of the player who doesn't have the isolated pawn. [/ QUOTE ] Exchanging on g2 gains us nothing??? I understand that we don't in general want to trade down in these situations, but his bishop on g2 is a candidate for best piece on the board. And as I'm sure you know, having moved the g-pawn is nothing but a weakness in the castled position once the fianchettoed bishop is gone. And creating weaknesses to attack is very much in our interest with the isolated pawn. I think he might play f3, whereupon we have a few options. We could play Bxb1 followed by Bc5. Or we could retreat to g6, where OK our bishop is somewhat out of play, but so is his and the second he plays f4 to activate it we can jump back in with Be4. Finally, I'm not sure about this but it may be possible to play Qb6 after f3, with the idea of taking on d4, or if he opts to protect the knight rather than capturing on e4, then we can play Nc2+, trade queens and saddle him with isolated doubled b-pawns. If you didn't want to play Bf5 this move, the time to argue about it was last move. Nb4 was just silly if we didn't want to follow this plan.
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#397
10-13-2006, 02:48 AM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
[ QUOTE ]
Exchanging on g2 gains us nothing??? I understand that we don't in general want to trade down in these situations, but his bishop on g2 is a candidate for best piece on the board. And as I'm sure you know, having moved the g-pawn is nothing but a weakness in the castled position once the fianchettoed bishop is gone. And creating weaknesses to attack is very much in our interest with the isolated pawn [/ QUOTE ] In the current position, the light squared bishops are essentially a wash - he is using his to attack the d-pawn, and we likely need ours to defend the d-pawn (usually from e6). The difference is that our plan is deal with our d-pawn by advancing it some day, at which time our bishop should be placed on e6 to attack both sides of the board, while at the same time ensuring that his bishop isn't going to be hitting anything but air on the long diagonal. Basically, his bishop has defined it's role right now, while ours still has a variety of options open that we might want to consider doing. As well, playing Bf5-e4-g2 is further loss of time; basically think of it this way: we are going to take our Bishop on c8 and take it off the board. In exchange for that, he gets to put his knight on d4 and castle. Definitely a major loss of time for us - we certainly don't get enough compensation in the way of having the light squared B's off the board. [ QUOTE ] having moved the g-pawn is nothing but a weakness in the castled position once the fianchettoed bishop is gone. [/ QUOTE ] The main weak squares of a castled kingside fianchetto with no bishop are the squares h3 and f3 (assuming white). With his pawn still on e2, f3 is not a weakness. h3 is far from an exploitable weakness in this position. The tradeoff is that in such positions, the player with the isolated pawn (in this case, us), often tries to work up an attack based on the b8-h2 diagonal, which isn't possible here. That all said, I will say that Bf5 Nd4 Be4 0-0 Bxg2 Kxg2 is an option. This is a more passive defensive course of action, where he will have the dpawn securely blockaded, and we will have very little initiative of any sort. The more aggressive option is to play Bc5 and other supporting moves and attempt to get in d4 as soon as possible to try and get some space edge. If we can maintain it (or better, force him to play e2-e3 to liquidate it), we may be able to get some decent chances.
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#398
10-13-2006, 03:21 AM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
I had looked at the line up to Kxg2 before supporting Nb4, but I had thought that the loss of the g2-bishop would be a major blow for White and I hadn't really considered the extent of our time loss.
OK so Nb4 was a waste of time, but what now? Do we write that off and play Be7 or something, or press on with Bf5? Note that we don't necessarily have to play Bxg2 immediately after O-O. We could try Bc5 or something to bring more pressure against c2.
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#399
10-13-2006, 08:28 AM
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Re: Curtains vs PoG
[ QUOTE ]
OK so Nb4 was a waste of time [/ QUOTE ] Lets see what Naj and company have up their sleave. The position was over my head and I was the first to admit I didn't understand the position when the move Nb4 was being discussed. They must have an idea of how to proceed.
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