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#21
01-24-2006, 05:52 PM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
My favorite is when two players have middle pairs and it ends up all in, and if the hands had been reversed, they would've been played exactly the same.
Then the lower pair catches a set and the guy who got unlucky with the bigger pair bemoans "outplaying" the smaller pair, but getting unlucky. 
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#22
01-24-2006, 06:24 PM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
The majority of poker players nowadays think folding T-high after someone w/ 9-high pushes and shows his bluff is getting outplayed. Hardly. [/ QUOTE ] Good post. This bit stuck out to me because it emphasizes a variation on the theme of results-oriented thinking. It is exceedingly likely that 9-high played the hand wrong and 10-high played the hand correctly, given the information each had at the time. The question is whether 9-high's push is correct versus 10-high's range (doubtful) and whether 10-high's fold is correct versus 9-high's range (almost certainly, unless the pot is huge relative to the bet). The point is that what actually happened is that 10-high outplayed 9-high. The hands they happen to hold aren't material. Assuming that the pot odds weren't there to justify the bluff (which is equivalent to assuming that 10-high gets to the same spot with a real hand frequently enough) if 9-high makes that play 1000 times, he loses a lot of chips overall. Outplaying him means calling with the hands that are ahead of his range enough to beat the odds he lays you, which includes folding the hands that don't. Folding the best hand isn't a glamorous way to outplay your opponent, but that is often exactly what you are doing when you fold the best hand. This becomes clear if you think in terms of ranges.
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#23
01-24-2006, 06:26 PM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
This is fantastic post. The flip side seems to be that people forget you can outplay people preflop as well. If the CO open raises and you push from the button with KQ (instead of say calling 1/6-1/7 of your stack) there are ALOT of hands your opponent will fold that he should call with. 22-66, AJ-A2. Guess what, you've outplayed your opponent. [/ QUOTE ] I like it when 'outplaying' involves a preflop push. It just makes me feel like everything is right in the world
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#24
01-24-2006, 06:50 PM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] okay ya, but Matt Damon definitely did outplay Johnny Chan [/ QUOTE ] So I was never really sure about this, but didn't Chan fold preflop for one bet getting like a bazillion to 1? [/ QUOTE ] It was not preflop! Look at the film, there were cards on the table.
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#25
01-24-2006, 07:10 PM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
This is fantastic post. The flip side seems to be that people forget you can outplay people preflop as well. If the CO open raises and you push from the button with KQ (instead of say calling 1/6-1/7 of your stack) there are ALOT of hands your opponent will fold that he should call with. 22-66, AJ-A2. Guess what, you've outplayed your opponent. [/ QUOTE ] He isn't making a mistake folding 22 if your push range is QQ-22, AK-AJ, KQ. What is interesting here is that KQ belongs in the same push range as big pairs because 22-66 has to fold. This is because KQ does much better against 22-66 than 22-66 does against bigger pairs. Of course, the value of pushing JJ comes from getting calls from 99 because you push frequently enough with 77, 88, AK, AQ, KQ. And if everyone is playing optimally, it all comes out even in the end. But when you're opponents making exploitable mistakes like raising 22/A4 when stack sizes are such that they'll often face a reraise push they can't call, you can "outplay" them with hands like KQ.
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#29
01-30-2006, 08:27 AM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
It was very nice of you to leave him with 250 chips....or were you intent on just slapping him round a bit [/ QUOTE ] He left himself the 250 with his river bluff. I reraised to try to get them out of him, but he folded. Part of me wanted to just call, to see what he was trying to Gus me with. Could have been a good laugh.
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