live 10-25: very deep stack KK oop vs a lag - Page 2

turnipmonster · #11 01-30-2006, 12:45 AM

HE HAS AN ELEPHANT!? mike if the guy really had an elephant, what was it doing during all this?

BluffTHIS! · #12 01-30-2006, 02:54 AM

#1: I would call and then check/call smaller or medium size bets on the next 2 streets if another straight card didn't come. And if a spade came, I would make a large overbet, unless it were a straight-flush card. I would play the same way in another scenario where you check, utg checks, and NUB bets, and just call and see what utg did. If he folded then continue to check/call if no spade or straight card came.

#2: Fold.

mikech · #13 01-30-2006, 03:07 AM

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mike, OT, but how was the action/competition level and general crowdedness of the Borgata last night given the tournament? I meant to make it over to observe (no chance I was jumping into 10-25) but never left the 5/10 at the Taj.

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action was decent, but there were also some very good players in the games, so you had to pick your spots. there were two 10-25s going last night, but after NUB left our game at 1 a.m. the table broke instantly. although i heard that the 25-50 they got going was playing pretty crazy.

mikech · #14 01-30-2006, 03:14 AM

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HE HAS AN ELEPHANT!? mike if the guy really had an elephant, what was it doing during all this?

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it was a baby elephant, they only needed to clear out two tables to make room. never say the borgata doesn't cater to its players.

(to gaash: guy was prob'ly in his mid-30s, didn't catch his name, said he was from virginia. no pachyderm.)

LyinKing · #15 01-30-2006, 03:31 AM

yeah, I figured some of the tourney attendees would be sitting at those stakes. Thanks for the reply.

mikech · #16 01-30-2006, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
#1: I would call and then check/call smaller or medium size bets on the next 2 streets if another straight card didn't come. And if a spade came, I would make a large overbet, unless it were a straight-flush card. I would play the same way in another scenario where you check, utg checks, and NUB bets, and just call and see what utg did. If he folded then continue to check/call if no spade or straight card came.

[/ QUOTE ]
the consensus seems to be that leading the flop is best, and i agree. but you're the first to address my question about potential turn cards. the ace of spades would obviously be ideal; one of the two remaining kings would be nice too; i also wouldn't mind an offsuit deuce. not a lot of other cards are "safe" though. any 4, 5, 9, or T puts a 4-straight on board. a non-spade ace is not too good. do i want the board to pair? do i even really want to see another spade?

problem is i think he has a very wide range here, while my hand is pretty well-defined. once he puts in a flop raise, i have little doubt he's willing to play a 20k pot. i, on the other hand--well, i'm a wuss, so...not so much.

BluffTHIS! · #17 01-30-2006, 04:27 AM

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problem is i think he has a very wide range here, while my hand is pretty well-defined. once he puts in a flop raise, i have little doubt he's willing to play a 20k pot. i, on the other hand--well, i'm a wuss, so...not so much.

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That is why I would rather exercise pot control by just check/calling all the way if I could and the board didn't get even more ugly. Plus if you check/call the flop, and utg then raises, you can now fold more confidently because he is more likely to do so with a hand that beats you than is NUB. The fact of the matter, despite having a K spade draw, is that the board in question is very dangerous for your hand.

AZK · #18 01-30-2006, 04:28 AM

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problem is i think he has a very wide range here, while my hand is pretty well-defined. once he puts in a flop raise, i have little doubt he's willing to play a 20k pot. i, on the other hand--well, i'm a wuss, so...not so much.

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then he wins.

BobboFitos · #19 01-30-2006, 04:28 AM

umm... I undertsnad people not ormally wanting to play a big pot and all.. but our hand is huge compared to his hand range. it seems he has top pair, maybe not even that good, maybe a raw spade, maybe Tx, etc. I am not really looking to fold this on the flop.

DonButtons · #20 01-30-2006, 04:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
problem is i think he has a very wide range here, while my hand is pretty well-defined. once he puts in a flop raise, i have little doubt he's willing to play a 20k pot. i, on the other hand--well, i'm a wuss, so...not so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is why I would rather exercise pot control by just check/calling all the way if I could and the board didn't get even more ugly. Plus if you check/call the flop, and utg then raises, you can now fold more confidently because he is more likely to do so with a hand that beats you than is NUB. The fact of the matter, despite having a K spade draw, is that the board in question is very dangerous for your hand.

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still will play a 16kish pot if he pots every street