Stepping Up Headaches

[CardRG]

Is there much difference in the opponents from one incremental limit to the next in limit Hold Em?

I’ve been only playing online for a couple months. I got off to a rocky start like many new players.

I played higher limits like 2.00/4.00 for awhile, but got roughed up. From there I wound my way down to the 0.25/0.50 micros, spent time there learning the game.

Now I’m back up to 1.00/2.00 and have been playing well.

I would suspect that out of my last 20 sessions (a session for me averages between 50 and 80 hands), I’ve walked away a winner in at least 15 of them. Most of these wins have been modest, ten or fifteen bucks. A few have been impressive for that limit: Almost seventy once, a few forties and one fifty.

My question is this: Do I sound like a candidate for moving up to 2/4. My bankroll isn’t the issue; it can afford well support such a move.

Lately, I’ve made short forays at the 2/4 limit--sort of as a test, a feeling out, the way a timid swimmer will poke a foot in the chilly water of a pool.

These sessions have been generally shorter than my normal ones--never more than 50 hands and sometimes as little as 30, so my sample is not definitive.

The results haven’t been good. Out of six sessions, only one has been a winner.

I can’t really explain it. I think I’m playing OK, basically playing the same game that gets me the chips in 1.00/2.00. But yet I wind up getting beat.

Can there really be that much difference between these two levels? The opponents seem stronger, more aggressive, fewer complete maniacs. I see trickier moves, like check raising or a player with pocket Kings checking every hand to the river just to draw in the unwary.

Psychologically, I know I’m a little timid about the higher dollar amounts. As I said, my bankroll is ripe for higher limits, but my mind may not be.

[TripleH68]

Do you count your chips after every hand while you are playing?

Seriously, you have the right idea when you talk about 'testing the waters' at higher limits. If you are going to succeed though you need to stop being so results oriented.

The best example is golf. A guy can play well and not shoot a good score. A bad bounce here. A couple putts roll over the edge. Etc. You can also hit a worm burner 145 yards for a hole-in-one.

Just concentrate on your game, not the $$$.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Psychologically, I know I’m a little timid about the higher dollar amounts. As I said, my bankroll is ripe for higher limits, but my mind may not be.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds to me like this is probably your biggest problem, and it's not at all unusual. You're going about the move the right way--taking brief shots at the higher limit with a fixed amount of your bankroll, and not trying to chase your losses. But the psychological aspect of playing for much bigger (in dollar terms) pots will definitely take its toll as you get started at a higher limit.

Time (and a few winning sessions) is the best way to cure yourself of this, but another trick I've used in the past is to follow someone from my buddy list up to the higher limit and sit at his table (preferably on his left). This gives me an instant shot of confidence, as I know there is at least one player at the table that I can outplay, and whose style of play I'm familiar with. And believe me, the really bad players jump all over the limits, either chasing recent losses or trying to maximize a "hot streak".

It's been a while since I played below 3/6, so I really can't say if there's a huge difference in the level of play between 1/2 & 2/4 (what site you're playing on also makes a difference). I know that back when I was working my way up, that particular jump didn't seem too severe to me...it was moving up to the 3/6 game that really took some adjustments. It may well be that nowadays the 2/4 game is a lot tougher, though, and if you're playing on Party then the additional monster rake can also affect your results, especially on 2/4.

The standard advice applies: play the hands, review the hands, and if you're unsure about a decision you made in one of them, post it here for a critique & advice. And of course read through others' threads, and don't be afraid to get involved in the discussions therein. The worst that could happen is that you could be dead wrong, and then you'll have the opportunity to learn how & why while you're away from the tables, for free. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

In answer to your broad, overall question...yes, there often is a difference in the opponents from one limit to the next. In the simplest possible terms, each time you move up to a new limit, the average player there is going to be just a bit better than you're used to. There are still going to be godawful fish, all the way up through the high stakes games, and there are still going to be a few very, very good opponents, even down in the microlimits. But the Average Joe in these games is going to be just a tad bit more aggressive, especially postflop, and is going to be just a tad bit better at putting his opponents on hands. You, in turn, also have to improve your game in order to maintain your edge. Or lose money. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Welcome to the forums! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[CardRG]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you count your chips after every hand while you are playing?


[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you meant this facetiously, but it’s not far from the truth. I guess I really do keep a running tab on my stack after every hand. It’s right there in my face, after all. Unfortunately, at this stage of my poker development, I haven’t yet learned to divorce myself from this type of score keeping.

I understand that you mean I should just concentrate on playing my best game and that if I do that the money will take care of itself.

[crablegs33]

lol... harv with another solid response to a moving up question... what he said

[CardRG]

[ QUOTE ]
Time (and a few winning sessions) is the best way to cure yourself of this, but another trick I've used in the past is to follow someone from my buddy list up to the higher limit and sit at his table (preferably on his left). This gives me an instant shot of confidence, as I know there is at least one player at the table that I can outplay, and whose style of play I'm familiar with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent advise. Very thorough post.

I have yet to start a comprehensive buddy list other than the one in trail copy of Poker Tracker. (Looking for a discount or used copy of that or comparable software, by the way.)

One reason for this is my short tenure in poker and second is that my 1st month was pretty much all losses so all my buddy's would have been shark-buddies to avoid.

[8Mile]

The step from 1/2 to 2/4 was difficult for me. It took me 3 tries before I got it right. I approached it similarly to you: a few short sessions, too small to be statistically significant, but I constantly had the feeling I was being outplayed -- and I was! You can't get away with mistakes at 2/4 that you can at 1/2 because there are fewer idiots making up for your errors with dead money contributions. The average player is tighter, more aggressive, and trickier, and you have to adjust your play accordingly.

[CardRG]

What a difference a few hours can make. I’ve been reading this forum, attempting to soak in the advice that’s been offered.

This morning I played, armed with the confidence that I would finally beat this 2/4 game. Or, if not beat it, at least play my A game.

As per usual, it went pretty much straight down hill. Beats that seldom happen to me at 1-2, seem to habitually happen at this higher limit.

I wound up losing the last of my $70 buck buy-in to a full house I never saw coming. I guess it was a good thing I was All-In at that point or else I would have raised my two pair even higher.

$70 bucks doesn’t last forever at 2/4.

I got up and licked my wounds a little, went for a walk. A rather long, contemplative walk.

During my stroll I thought about my adventure (or misadventure might be a better description). And I came to a startling realization: That I had probably just played some of the best poker of my 2 month career.

At my current newbie skill level I didn’t see what I would have done different. This fact alone, warmed me, encouraged me, gave me the shot of valor in my veins that I needed. I didn’t have myself to blame. I hadn’t tilted. I hadn’t chased. I hadn’t played sucker hands.

The poker Gods or devils or luck or variance or whatever you like to call that intangible component that impacts the hands we play, had just not seen fit to reward me during that session.

I couldn’t wait to get back to my computer, get back on that horse that had thrown me.

I reloaded another $100 bucks from Neteller. I went right back to 2/4. And I kicked their butts royally. I had my biggest single session win ever, over a hundred bucks in just 104 hands.

What accounts for this win? I think I played with a confidence that I’ve never displayed at this level. I played more hands than I’ve ever played at this level so any negative down turn had a greater chance to work itself out Also, I was more relaxed than I ever have been at this level.

I was in that zone you enter when the game is going right. I saw players tremble before me and fold.

My earlier loss that day (despite my skilled play) had made me realize that the players at this level are not necessarily supermen. Sure, I think they’re more skilled than my1-2 opponents but they can be beaten.

No, I haven’t divorced myself from watching my stack. Not yet anyway. But I’m trying to be less obsessed with it.

Also, I know one winning session doesn’t a career make. But, brother, it sure makes you feel a lot better than losing. I know this isn’t the last of the butt kickings I’ll receive at 2/4.

But the next time I lose at this level, I think I’ll stomach it better as long as the loss wasn’t the result of incompetent technique.

Finally, I do think the advice on this forum is already paying off. Some of you have been especially generous with your responses to my queries. Thanks.