A question for CA 5-150 players

Howard Beale · #1 09-21-2006, 08:12 AM

I played in the 5-150 for the first time tonight. I made a 'zillion' mistakes brought over from limit. I don't mind, it's part of the learning curve. My questions are regarding the player behavior at the table and I want to know if it's standard. I've gotten used to what I consider to be bad etiquette (a quaint old-fashioned concept) at the limit games but what I saw at the 5-150 was really out of hand as far as I'm concerned.

There was plenty of coffeehousing and trash talk. OK. I'm not a prude or kill-joy. I can live with that. There was also a lot of talking about the hands in progress and what various players might be playing both by the players in the hand and the players who folded. I heard players mention what cards they'd folded. During the play of a few hands one would ask another (after he folded) what he had that he couldn't continue on the turn and he'd be answered. Maybe they thought the players in the hand couldn't hear but I could and I imagine others could also. The worst was a hand where, on the turn HU, the player facing a bet mused out loud that he didn't think he could call. A few players said something like 'What? You've got to call! Look at all the money in the pot and you've only got $30 left! You must have something to call with!' To me that is just plain outrageous but nobody said anything.

So: Is that the way it is or did I just happen to be sitting at a 'strange' table?

Percula · #2 09-21-2006, 09:51 AM

No that is not normal and should be reported to the floor. Ask for a table change while you are talking to the floor, as they likely will not have the time to catch them red handed and put a stop to it.

Yawning Chain · #3 09-21-2006, 02:17 PM

That's horses$#t. Totally unacceptable.

Where was this?

Dealer should be shot if he didn't do anything.

DesertCat · #4 09-21-2006, 10:22 PM

Today I made quads on the turn. The guy who lead the turn lead the river for $75, but the dealer called him on string bet and told him to take $25 back. I had multiple players object with me, saying it's not the dealers job to call string bets, and she let the $75 stay. So in this case I didn't mind, unfortunately he folded to my $100 reraise allin in a huge pot.

There was a ton of table talk at my table, but all good natured. I didn't see anything out of line except maybe where one player pushes allin on the flop, another player calls, a third raises $150, enough to put the caller allin, and they coffehouse and ended up showing each other their hands. The allin player started to object, then realized he had no chance to win and dropped it.The bettor had two pair, the other player a small flush draw, and he ends up calling, rivering the flush. I didn't think it was over the line, but not sure of the rule.

BrunoThePug · #5 09-21-2006, 10:55 PM

My Wife and her father played in that game last night. She just plays for fun but somehow managed to win a hundred bucks or so. She told me her dad got in a fight with the dealer and got thrown out. He plays in a lot of the tournaments and recently told me that he's become a total nit about EVERYTHING.

Hendricks433 · #6 09-24-2006, 01:17 PM

at Windsor people talk all the time. No one really says anything except for 2 dealers who wont let you talk about the hand at all. Most people out of the hand are saying you gotta call, you have this? and so on. I normally keep my mouth shut cause I dont want to piss of the fish.

Rick Nebiolo · #7 09-24-2006, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I played in the 5-150 for the first time tonight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did a little search and assume this is the Casino Arizona version of NL Holdem. Am I right?

[ QUOTE ]
I've gotten used to what I consider to be bad etiquette (a quaint old-fashioned concept) at the limit games but what I saw at the 5-150 was really out of hand as far as I'm concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, ettiquette is quite ouf of style these days in these new NL games. We old folks who started in limit (I'm 52) probably have to get used to it (NOT!).

[ QUOTE ]
There was plenty of coffeehousing and trash talk. OK. I'm not a prude or kill-joy. I can live with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

[ QUOTE ]
There was also a lot of talking about the hands in progress and what various players might be playing both by the players in the hand and the players who folded. I heard players mention what cards they'd folded. During the play of a few hands one would ask another (after he folded) what he had that he couldn't continue on the turn and he'd be answered. Maybe they thought the players in the hand couldn't hear but I could and I imagine others could also.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is SOP in 90% of the NL games I play in (usually with 3-5 blinds up to 5/10 blinds) and it]s probably much worse in the smaller games so they are getting good training to continue this new tradition. I believe this is problem number one and intend to write about it in some detail soon, perhaps partly this morning given the inspiration of this and the Jive thread.

[ QUOTE ]
The worst was a hand where, on the turn HU, the player facing a bet mused out loud that he didn't think he could call. A few players said something like 'What? You've got to call! Look at all the money in the pot and you've only got $30 left! You must have something to call with!' To me that is just plain outrageous but nobody said anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to get out and get going today but I'll eventually post a few stories about even worse incidents in a lead thread regarding "group decisions" in NL. For now check out this post in the Thursday night Live at the Bike thread. Note I made some follow on posts elsewhere in that thread and in the next days Live at the Bike thread.

[ QUOTE ]
So: Is that the way it is or did I just happen to be sitting at a 'strange' table?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the way it is in LA. I do believe the coffeehousing and directly related indiscretions are the biggest problems facing NL. Due to TV the game is growing despite the house not doing much about it but eventually the games will get tougher and they will notice the customers they lose because this is so out of control. I'll try to add more comments elsewhere in this thread and in the nearby Jive thread.

~ Rick

Rick Nebiolo · #8 09-24-2006, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No that is not normal and should be reported to the floor. Ask for a table change while you are talking to the floor, as they likely will not have the time to catch them red handed and put a stop to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to see things are better in Arizona (assume this from your bio). In LA you would be hard pressed to find a game with blinds 5/10 and under (perhaps except the un-restricted buyin games) where this doesn't happen. It's no wonder Jamie Gold came from playing these games in LA.

The floor will say something but in general the house and floor staff are not being pro-active as they should be.

~ Rick

Rick Nebiolo · #9 09-24-2006, 03:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dealer should be shot if he didn't do anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although the dealers have a role, it is unrealistic to expect them to do much if they don't have the full backing of the floor. And the floor won't do much if they don't have the full backing of management. This is the case in LA in my experience.

~ Rick

Rick Nebiolo · #10 09-24-2006, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
at Windsor people talk all the time. No one really says anything except for 2 dealers who wont let you talk about the hand at all. Most people out of the hand are saying you gotta call, you have this? and so on. I normally keep my mouth shut cause I dont want to piss of the fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is eventually the good player to fish ratio is going to invert and this type of thing is going to aid in the destruction of the games.

~ Rick