100/200 A4o on the button

[Paluka]

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This analysis didn't help me much, mostly it just said stuff I already knew. I mean he has nothing, a pair, or a draw. No kidding?

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That's why you can call, raise or fold. There is no absolute "best" play in this situation, it depends. The conservative play is to call, but if you think he is making a move on your or if you want to create an image of being tough to run over for example you can certainly deviate.

I mean questions like "I got XX and my opponent raised me, what shall I do?" cannot be answered with detailed analysis.

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I'm just not really sure I agree with this. I think that I'm just not good enough at poker yet to recognize the best plays in spots like this. Right now they all look the same to me, but maybe at some point I'll realize that one of the lines is going to be the best one the vast majority of the time, or at least I'll figure out which players I should use which line against. I agree that there are some spots where we feel like "well, either he has it, or he don't". But in reality we should be able to place some sort of approximate % chance to his various holdings and figure out a play from there. We need to create a statistical model of our opponents in our brains.

[Shandrax]

Such an opponent model is certainly helpful, but you wrote in your original posting that the BB was unknown to you.

[Paluka]

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Such an opponent model is certainly helpful, but you wrote in your original posting that the BB was unknown to you.

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Of course, but there has to be something which could be called "optiomal play against unknown 100/200 player". or something.

[tongni]

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Of course, but there has to be something which could be called "optiomal play against unknown 100/200 player". or something.

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I don't agree. I think you just need to be aware of which one you pick and start mixing up your play from then on.

In the same vein, it's why I try not to respond to posts that specify an unknown, especially in shorthanded 50/100+. These situations just come up pretty infrequently just because you usually know half the players when you sit down and get a good idea about the other half relatively quickly.

Maybe there is an optimal play here. But I don't think it would impact your winrate much if you just picked a line at random every time from the ones listed above. Poker is 75% reads, 25% luck, and 50% bad beats.

[Paluka]

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Of course, but there has to be something which could be called "optiomal play against unknown 100/200 player". or something.

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I don't agree. I think you just need to be aware of which one you pick and start mixing up your play from then on.

In the same vein, it's why I try not to respond to posts that specify an unknown, especially in shorthanded 50/100+. These situations just come up pretty infrequently just because you usually know half the players when you sit down and get a good idea about the other half relatively quickly.

Maybe there is an optimal play here. But I don't think it would impact your winrate much if you just picked a line at random every time from the ones listed above. Poker is 75% reads, 25% luck, and 50% bad beats.

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I don't really agree with this. I think in most in situations in limit holdem, the optimal play is the same against most of our opponents. I think I should have an idea of what is most likely the best play if I don't know a guy. "I'm just going to do something that isn't totally retarded here, because I don't know this guy" doens't really cut it for me. I know there are hands where it is truly so close that what you do doesn't matter much, but I'm not convinced this hand is one of them yet.

[rory]

If you decide to call down there isn't much of a decision to make unless he bets the river too. Personally, if I called the turn here I probably would call the river against an unknown. Your hand might be good; he might be semi-bluffing or balls out bluffing. Also I would like a new player who presumably doesn't know how I play to not get the idea in his head that I am someone to be bluffed since part of the way I win is saving that last bet since everybody knows I never fold. I'd rather create the impression that I will never fold than try to make a good river laydown here. For example if I called down with K high here I pretty much made it so the guy won't bluff me for the next half an hour which in and of itself should be worth the fracton of a BB especially since he is going to be my BB bitch.

Knowing that I am going to call the river then it makes sense for me to raise any face card on the turn for a free showdown. Maybe a 5 will fold or maybe not but it doesn't matter since I was going to call the river anyway. At any rate raising the face card on the turn is the only way that maybe a better hand will fold so it is worth it since I was going to call the river anyway. Also, even better than being percieved as a player who will never fold is to be percieved as someone not to [censored] with, especially when that person is going to be playing you in many HU pots.

[Paluka]

I agree that just calling the flop and raising a face card on the turn is a reasonable line.
I understand you don't want to be perceived as a folder, but I think you can take that too far. Making a bad calldown with a very weak hand can also simply send the message that you are playing badly, and having that image is usually quite bad unless you are really hitting cards.

[SA125]

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Great, you're thinking ahead, that's probably smart, but it surely doesn't add anything to the discussion to tell us taht you already know what you're going to do and that's it.

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I think BK's statement is dead wrong.

As another poster said, this is a typical blind steal situation that comes up constantly and there's rarely a clear answer as to whether betting, raising, etc is right.

If nothing else, OP's post and Tommy's response is a reminder that maybe the most important thing is the simplest. Have a plan before acting. That has to be worth something. Considering all the standard options for this standard spot, I think it's the best advice yet.

[Paluka]

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Great, you're thinking ahead, that's probably smart, but it surely doesn't add anything to the discussion to tell us taht you already know what you're going to do and that's it.

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I think BK's statement is dead wrong.

As another poster said, this is a typical blind steal situation that comes up constantly and there's rarely a clear answer as to whether betting, raising, etc is right.

If nothing else, OP's post and Tommy's response is a reminder that maybe the most important thing is the simplest. Have a plan before acting. That has to be worth something. Considering all the standard options for this standard spot, I think it's the best advice yet.

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Of course we should have a plan before acting, but the point to this thread is to come up with the plan.

[NMcNasty]

I think you should just calldown in fear of being 4 bet on the flop or 3 bet on turn. If your opponent has any stones he'll be reraising with something like J8. If I'm the big blind with top pair on that board I'm specifically checkraising flop as opposed to turn to induce my opponent into making a free card play which I can then punish with a 4 bet.