Jamie Gold Responds to $12 M WSOP Lawsuit

[NCAces]

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You don't think that professional poker players, and the public in general, would have a negative opinion of a guy who doesn't pay people the money that he owes them?

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The general public has no idea that poker is even televised, has no idea there is a WSOP, and could absolutely care less about what the poker champion does or does not do. The extent to which people on this forum exaggerate the level of the general public's knowledge of, or interest in, televised poker is astonishing. If I did a "man on the street" survey and asked, "who is the 2006 WSOP Main Event champion?" I'd be lucky if 1 out of 100 people could give me the answer. Even after the FT airs, I will be lucky to get 1 out 100.

You are projecting ... just because you (and I) spend/waste an inordinate amount of our time here, doesn't make it a mainstream activity that many people know about or care about.

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What's idiotic is to think that nobody besides people in this forum would care about a world champion who tries to screw people that he owes money to.

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Which brings me to my second point ... how exactly do you know that the world champion is trying to screw people? Think before you answer, because conjecture (notwithstanding that we are in the NVG forum) is not what I am looking for. There have been a number of good posts here explaining both Gold's and Leyser's actions that don't point to anyone trying to screw the other.

For the record, I have defended Gold since days before the FT when the haters were irrationally dumping all over him. And, while I continue to defend him now by asking people to state facts, not conjecture, if it turns out that he is trying to screw people I will be very disappointed and the first to say that my gut feeling trust in him was misplaced. Money -- lots of money -- causes people to do crazy things, but I will reserve judgment until all the facts are out.

That is why I think it is idiotic.

NCACes

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You need to get off your high, holier-than-though horse, counselor. This is a gossip forum. If gossip irritates you, then perhaps you should stop reading this forum.

The fact that you claim that the general public does not even know that poker is televised speaks to the credibility, or lack thereof, of your other assertions.

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Lawman ... I will get of my high horse, when you get out of the gutter.

Tell me what you think happens if I do a random interview of 100 people on the street. "Who is the 2006 WSOP Champion." How many out of 100 will say Jamie Gold? I can't wait to hear your response. My guess is zero, maybe 1 out of 100.

And, what facts do you have that he is trying to screw someone?

NCAces

[Lawman007]

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The general public has no idea that poker is even televised

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I rest my case. LOL

[NCAces]

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Which brings me to my second point ... how exactly do you know that the world champion is trying to screw people? Think before you answer, because conjecture (notwithstanding that we are in the NVG forum) is not what I am looking for.

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It seems to be a fact that Gold promised Leyser 50%. It also seems to be a fact that Gold hasn't yet instructed the Rio to release Lesyer's half to Leyser. If those two apparent facts are true (do you have reason to doubt them?), then Gold is not "trying to" screw Leyser -- he is screwing Leyser. He's already breached their deal.

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Oh, the irony ... you start with the sentence, "it seems to be a fact." Did you do that on purpose?

I am inclined to agree that there was a deal between the 2. I doubt Leyser would have filed the lawsuit if there wasn't something there. Moreover, he quoted a phone message that would indicate he has stong proof of the deal.

That said, in none of the articles I read on the Internet did I see where Gold has stated he was not going to pay Leyser or anyone else. In fact, he has stated the opposite ... that he was going to share it with his supporters. He said he was disappointed that a suit had been filed and that they were working it out, not that he didn't owe anything.

Personally, I don't blame Layser for filing for the injunction ... it was the only way he can make sure the money doesn't disappear, should Gold welch on the deal. But, I tend to think that Gold is trying to tie up a lot of loose ends he has - 50% to Layser, 10% to Chan, and what percent to anyone else? And is Chan's 10% 1.2mil or 600K? What do you do about taxes? Think of all the deals you might kiddingly (or seriously) not thinking there is any chance you are going to win the ME.

The point that I a making is that there are very valid reasons, many dicsussed above, as to why Gold might be delayed in releasing the money. Outside of 2p2, I haven't read a single source that says it is because he intends to keep all for himself.

Look, 12mil is alot, and people do crazy things for money. But because 12mil is alot, there are some tricky tax issues that need to be resolved, and he has some tricky share issues to resolve. I'm not a hater, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Those inclinded to dislike him don't. Whatever.

NCACes

[NCAces]

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The general public has no idea that poker is even televised

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I rest my case. LOL

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Then you lose, or else you don't get outside the poker community very often.

LOL all you want ... out of the 100, how many? Come on lawman, respond or say Uncle. How many?

NCAces

[jman220]

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The general public has no idea that poker is even televised

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I rest my case. LOL

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Then you lose, or else you don't get outside the poker community very often.

LOL all you want ... out of the 100, how many? Come on lawman, respond or say Uncle. How many?

NCAces

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NCAces,

Your assertion that the majority of people don't even know that poker is televised is absolutely ridiculous. Have you seen the ratings for some of these shows? Everyone and there brother followed the 2004 and 2005 WSOP. It may be losing steam right now, but your attempts to minimize what has become a worldwide poker craze phenomenon are silly.

Regards,
--jman220

[Triumph36]

I don't get the sense Jamie Gold has any desire to become a high-stakes poker professional, so wtf does he care what they think?

The problem is with sponsors, etc. - he might cost himself a shot at advertising money. As we know, both Raymer and Moneymaker had backing deals that they paid out.

And NCAces, people may not remember the names of past champions aside from Moneymaker, but poker shows have gotten huge ratings.

[Lawman007]

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The general public has no idea that poker is even televised

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I rest my case. LOL

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Then you lose, or else you don't get outside the poker community very often.

LOL all you want ... out of the 100, how many? Come on lawman, respond or say Uncle. How many?

NCAces

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At least 90 people out of 100 know that poker is televised. Now go out on the street and start questioning people to prove to yourself something that anyone with an IQ over 100 already knows. LOL LOL LOL

[NCAces]

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The general public has no idea that poker is even televised

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I rest my case. LOL

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Then you lose, or else you don't get outside the poker community very often.

LOL all you want ... out of the 100, how many? Come on lawman, respond or say Uncle. How many?

NCAces

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NCAces,

Your assertion that the majority of people don't even know that poker is televised is absolutely ridiculous. Have you seen the ratings for some of these shows? Everyone and there brother followed the 2004 and 2005 WSOP. It may be losing steam right now, but your attempts to minimize what has become a worldwide poker craze phenomenon are silly.

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I'll admit that my generalization was overbroad, but I don't think my main point is wrong. I'll ask you the same question Lawman keeps dodging ... man on the street interview ... "who is the 2006 WSOP Main Event Champion?" You tell me how many people will say Jamie Gold?

You see, my larger point that I make often in these threads is that those here on 2p2 tend to project their fanatcism with poker to the general population. I know, because I tend to do it too ... I love the game to an extreme. So, when I am talking to someone who "knows that poker is televised" they still get a glassed over look when I start talking about a tournament, WSOP or otherwise. Even the guys in my monthly tournament thought I was crazy when I started talking about some of the things that I saw on the PPV ... and these are guys that occassionally watch poker on TV and play once a month.

So when someone aks whether I think the general public would want to know about the winner of the ME welching on a bet, the only answer I can see is no, the general public doesn't care. Perhaps the small segment of the poker playing public, but not the general public.

NCAces

[NCAces]

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The general public has no idea that poker is even televised

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I rest my case. LOL

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Then you lose, or else you don't get outside the poker community very often.

LOL all you want ... out of the 100, how many? Come on lawman, respond or say Uncle. How many?

NCAces

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At least 90 people out of 100 know that poker is televised. Now go out on the street and start questioning people to prove to yourself something that anyone with an IQ over 100 already knows. LOL LOL LOL

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We need to wrap up this thread jack,and I think we both lost sight of what the original discussion was about:

Someone said: "Sure, you're a douche, and hated by a lot of people," (referring to Gold)

I responded with a FYP: "Sure, you're a douche, and hated by a lot of nerdy poker geeks on 2+2 who are so small a number it doesn't mean a thing to you,"

And added: "the idea that anyone outside a small, small, miniscule number of 2p2rs even have an opinion, let alone hate, is idiotic."

You resonded: "You don't think that professional poker players, and the public in general, would have a negative opinion of a guy who doesn't pay people the money that he owes them? ... What's idiotic is to think that nobody besides people in this forum would care about a world champion who tries to screw people that he owes money to."

I read this and think to myself, I don't think the public in general knows who the world champion is, let alone cares about what he has done or hasn't done.

I responded: "The general public has no idea that poker is even televised, has no idea there is a WSOP, and could absolutely care less about what the poker champion does or does not do. The extent to which people on this forum exaggerate the level of the general public's knowledge of, or interest in, televised poker is astonishing."

I will agree that the general pulic does know that poker is televised. Not 90% as you believe, but enough to state that I overstated that part of my point. However, I stand by my statement that the general public could care less about what the poker champion does or does not do.

To that end, I stated, "If I did a "man on the street" survey and asked, "who is the 2006 WSOP Main Event champion?" I'd be lucky if 1 out of 100 people could give me the answer. Even after the FT airs, I will be lucky to get 1 out 100." After all, they have to know that there is a 2006 ME Champ and who he is to care, yes?

You've not responded to my man-on-the-street question.

So, my final position is: (1) alot of people don't hate Jamie Gold, (2) the general public doesn't know who Jamie Gold is, nor do they care what he may have done with regard to sharing his winnnings, and (3) anyone here at 2p2 who says the general public would care about this is projecting their love and involvement of the game and poker community well beyond its respresentation within the general public.

You may disagree and that is fine. I am done with the dicussion and moving along.

To all, sorry about the threadjack.

NCAces

[NickMPK]

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Which brings me to my second point ... how exactly do you know that the world champion is trying to screw people? Think before you answer, because conjecture (notwithstanding that we are in the NVG forum) is not what I am looking for.

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It seems to be a fact that Gold promised Leyser 50%. It also seems to be a fact that Gold hasn't yet instructed the Rio to release Lesyer's half to Leyser. If those two apparent facts are true (do you have reason to doubt them?), then Gold is not "trying to" screw Leyser -- he is screwing Leyser. He's already breached their deal.

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Do you know exactly what Gold and Leyser's agreement was? From the phone call, it sounds like their agreement was to split the money after consulting with various tax specialists on how to best reduce their liability.

It seems completely reasonable to me that Jaime Gold has not yet directed any of his winnings to be redeemed yet, either to himself or his backers, while he goes through all his options.

There may be no way to reduce their liability beyond just paying out half to each individual. But I think any competent attorney would recommend that his client allow experts to research all possibilities before simply acceeding to a multi-million dollar tax liability.