Is there any game more misplayed than this one by the average player?

[kolotoure]

For a game so simple a lot of people play Razz horribly

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call in hand 1 sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]I very much disagree, but I'm willing to hear your reasoning.

[Ergodicity]

[ QUOTE ]
(I'm a winning player at $10/20, but havn't logged enough hands at $25/50 to say for sure yet).

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds to me like you are a slightly positive breakeven player at 10/20

[Assani Fisher]

I have 50,000 hands in my PT, and I'm winning over that span- not sure what your point is. Regardless, why are you bringing up petty issues like this and grammar/spelling errors in my threads?

[Habib Marwan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call in hand 1 sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]I very much disagree, but I'm willing to hear your reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Overcalling a pot bet with A 2 J 10 on an A A 7 board is retarded. Every card in the deck other than a jack or ten leaves you completely lost. Are you expecting to call down in a 3 way pot and show trip aces with a jack kicker to win the high half?

[PorkPieHat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. If theyre drawing to half the pot then they arent drawing dead.
2. In stud8, opponents are often getting the correct odds to make calls that look really horrible. I dont think that its possible to mess up limit stud8 as badly as PLO8 without really trying.

[/ QUOTE ]

If my opponent caps with 2 high pair/trips on 5th/6th against my low+straight draw, they are drawing dead. They cannot win the pot, they can only lose it or get their money back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Help me out here, but if there are say 10 bb in the pot when I call 1 bb on 6th, wouldn't I get more than my money back if I took half the pot? Unless you are talking about PLS8 or some other mystery stud variation.

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call in hand 1 sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]I very much disagree, but I'm willing to hear your reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Overcalling a pot bet with A 2 J 10 on an A A 7 board is retarded. Every card in the deck other than a jack or ten leaves you completely lost. Are you expecting to call down in a 3 way pot and show trip aces with a jack kicker to win the high half?

[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize that there are 6 tens and jacks out there right? And you do realize that if he has A7 or even AK then one of those six outs may very well get me his stack(or in this case, if hes a bad player then he'll pay me off with a naked ace). Furthermore, the fact that there were 3 players in the pot gives a strong indication that someone is going for low and gives me even more EV since obviously if my T or J comes out that does not complete the low. I called a bet for just under $200. I won almost $3000. Now I agree that I can't count on winning $3000 all the time in this spot, but clearly the implied odds justified the call here.

Moreover, you're giving his pot sized bet too much credit. He would do that with any ace. And he raised preflop, which gives an indication that he has a strong preflop hand(that turns out to be not so true, but we don't know that at the time I'm deciding whether or not to make this call). And what hands with an ace are strong? Usually AA(which we can rule out since I have one) or a strong low hand with flush draws. Therefore, it is a possibility that he has a strong low hand and I have the best hand on the flop. My call pretty much tells him that I also have an ace, so its very likely that a good player would slow down on the turn if he didn't have a full house or an ace with a good kicker and I could win the pot on the turn. Furthermore, lets say that he is a good, tight player- Unless he fills up on the turn, hes just as scared of the possibility of me having a full house as I would be of him....its very possible for me to knock a hand like AQ out with a good sized bet.

And finally, as if all that wasn't enough, lets also mention that I have position on both players in this hand.

I think that folding here is overly tight.

[Assani Fisher]

And btw...

Saying my call "sucks" in your first post and then calling my play "retarded" in the second post really isn't the way to have a civilized discussion.

[PorkPieHat]

Well, you are 50/50 against a low draw with an A, if his 4th card is lower than a J. Any A with 2 low and a Q or K and you are about a 3:1 dog.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1900453
pokenum -o8 2h ad td jh - as 2s 6d qh -- ah ac 7c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ac 7c Ah
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ad Td Jh 2h 114 243 522 55 0 96 48 0.256
As 2s 6d Qh 474 522 243 55 472 0 48 0.744

Any A with a Q or K and you are pretty much a 2:1 dog:
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1900456
pokenum -o8 2h ad td jh - as 2s 9d qh -- ah ac 7c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ac 7c Ah
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ad Td Jh 2h 218 228 537 55 0 0 160 0.354
As 2s 9d Qh 387 537 228 55 0 0 160 0.646

You are also a dog to a 234x with clubs:
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1900461
pokenum -o8 2h ad td jh - 3s 2s 4c qc -- ah ac 7c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ac 7c Ah
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ad Td Jh 2h 185 628 192 0 0 120 9 0.498
3s 2s Qc 4c 189 192 628 0 601 0 9 0.502

IOW, most reasonable hands that call you here are ahead of you, and rarely will you have an advantage. You caught your perfect card on the turn and got called, yay for you, but what do you do when you miss (which will happen 85% of the time or so)? If a low hits on the turn then you are even worse off than before and will have a hard time calling a pot bet (I'd assume).

I'm not trying to question your play, but this doesn't really seem like the type of hand that could properly illustrate great poker skill all that well. It does show that there are some iffy players at that level, no question there.

[jai]

The situation in question was three-handed which changes the equities drastically (given certain conditions).