Is there any game more misplayed than this one by the average player?

[Assani Fisher]

I've probably logged 50x more HE hands than PLO/8 hands. However if I sit at the highest limits at Party for HE($25/50) its a pretty tough game and my win rate is still questioned(I'm a winning player at $10/20, but havn't logged enough hands at $25/50 to say for sure yet). However if I sit at the highest level of PLO/8($10/20) I feel totally comfortable and very much expect to have a winnning session most of the time.

And the mistakes I see even at the highest levels available on a site are insane. Just really bad poker.

What is it about this game that causes it to be so misplayed? Is it simply that because HE is the most popular game that has caused the average player to be pretty capapble at that? Are other non-HE games(stud for example) similarly soft?

[Phil153]

Poker books. No more, no less. Most people aren't very intelligent (including most of 2+2), and without someone to take them by the hand and show them how to play, they can't figure it out on their own.

[Kuso]

stud/8 is weaker at lower limits... not sure at higher limits.

[Kuso]

i think the reason a lot of people like plo8 is because:

- there are a lot of opportunities to make bluffs that are relatively risk free and often work

- you get twice as many cards (with a lot more chances to make bluffing and scooping hands)

- it's a big bet game that makes the previous two points even more compelling

[Assani Fisher]

Just to give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about here are a few hands that I played tonight at $10/20. Keep in mind this is all during one 2 hour(approx.) session, so its not like I'm randomly picking out a bunch of hands over a long period of time to stress my point. Also keep in mind that this is the highest limits available on Party Poker.

***** Hand History for Game 4930122394 *****
$2000 PL Omaha Hi-Lo - Friday, August 11, 23:57:40 ET 2006
Table Table 95206 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 7: RexxBanner ( $11652.33 )
Seat 5: IcyPots ( $2819.83 )
Seat 1: HUGSNLING ( $1087.50 )
Seat 9: tigerdr ( $1533 )
Seat 8: crazyapk ( $3368 )
Seat 2: CALLSPUTS ( $2388 )
Seat 3: landcruiser6 ( $661.70 )
Seat 10: luckyjill ( $1850 )
Seat 6: Piranha2 ( $580 )
Seat 4: GradyYT ( $980 )
tigerdr posts small blind [$10].
luckyjill posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IcyPots [ 2h Ad Td Jh ]
HUGSNLING calls [$20].
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CALLSPUTS folds.
landcruiser6 folds.
GradyYT folds.
IcyPots calls [$20].
Piranha2 folds.
RexxBanner calls [$20].
crazyapk folds.
tigerdr calls [$10].
luckyjill raises [$20].
HUGSNLING calls [$20].
IcyPots calls [$20].
RexxBanner calls [$20].
tigerdr calls [$20].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, Ac, 7c ]
tigerdr checks.
luckyjill bets [$197].
HUGSNLING calls [$197].
IcyPots calls [$197].
RexxBanner folds.
tigerdr folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
luckyjill bets [$788].
HUGSNLING calls [$788].
IcyPots is all-In [$2582.83]
luckyjill is all-In [$825]
HUGSNLING is all-In [$62.50]
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
luckyjill shows [ Jd, As, Js, 3d ] three of a kind, aces.
HUGSNLING doesn't show [ Kd, 4h, 3s, 2d ] a pair of aces.
IcyPots shows [ 2h, Ad, Td, Jh ] a full house, Aces full of tens.
IcyPots wins $969.83 from side pot #2 with a full house, Aces full of tens.
IcyPots wins $1525 from side pot #1 with a full house, Aces full of tens.
IcyPots wins $3339.50 from the main pot with a full house, Aces full of tens.
There was no qualifying low hand.


***** Hand History for Game 4929808897 *****
$2000 PL Omaha Hi-Lo - Friday, August 11, 23:11:53 ET 2006
Table Table 95206 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 6: NUT_BOY ( $1240.50 )
Seat 7: RexxBanner ( $9133.33 )
Seat 8: BigFlick26 ( $1785.64 )
Seat 5: IcyPots ( $2746.33 )
Seat 1: HUGSNLING ( $1010.50 )
Seat 4: gamble24x7 ( $1349.68 )
Seat 2: GradyYT ( $1452.50 )
Seat 3: ChecknLittle ( $397 )
Seat 10: phuck_fill ( $1980 )
Seat 9: tigerdr ( $1021.50 )
ChecknLittle posts small blind [$10].
gamble24x7 posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IcyPots [ 2d As Ac Jd ]
IcyPots calls [$20].
NUT_BOY raises [$90].
RexxBanner folds.
BigFlick26 folds.
tigerdr calls [$90].
phuck_fill calls [$90].
HUGSNLING folds.
GradyYT folds.
ChecknLittle folds.
gamble24x7 folds.
IcyPots raises [$460].
NUT_BOY is all-In [$1150.50]
tigerdr folds.
phuck_fill folds.
IcyPots calls [$760.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 2h, 9c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7h ]
IcyPots shows [ 2d, As, Ac, Jd ] two pairs, aces and threes.
NUT_BOY shows [ 5s, 2c, 4s, Jc ] two pairs, threes and twos.
NUT_BOY shows 7,5,4,3,2 for low.
IcyPots wins $1344 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and threes.
NUT_BOY wins Lo ($1344) from the main pot with 7,5,4,3,2.


There were actually a bunch more hands that I wanted to post including one where someone called me for $700 on the turn with a second nut low draw(A3), but I didn't feel like looking through my HHs too hard.

I mean, I'm not complaining about this gold mine, I'm just shocked that these games can be so soft.

[Assani Fisher]

Heres another one. Just a fabulous value bet on the river, lol...

***** Hand History for Game 4930226383 *****
$2000 PL Omaha Hi-Lo - Saturday, August 12, 00:15:17 ET 2006
Table Table 95206 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 7: RexxBanner ( $11896.71 )
Seat 5: IcyPots ( $5672.57 )
Seat 9: tigerdr ( $1804.97 )
Seat 8: crazyapk ( $5189.24 )
Seat 2: CALLSPUTS ( $2303.24 )
Seat 3: landcruiser6 ( $501.70 )
Seat 4: GradyYT ( $930 )
Seat 10: bradph ( $888.93 )
Seat 1: tanguerayover ( $0 )
Seat 6: savsams ( $2000 )
landcruiser6 posts small blind [$10].
GradyYT posts big blind [$20].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IcyPots [ 3c Jc 3d 5h ]
IcyPots folds.
RexxBanner calls [$20].
crazyapk calls [$20].
tigerdr raises [$40].
bradph calls [$40].
CALLSPUTS calls [$40].
landcruiser6 raises [$250].
GradyYT folds.
RexxBanner folds.
crazyapk folds.
tigerdr calls [$220].
bradph calls [$220].
CALLSPUTS folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, Tc, 8c ]
landcruiser6 is all-In [$241.70]
tigerdr calls [$241.70].
bradph calls [$241.70].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
tigerdr checks.
bradph checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
tigerdr checks.
bradph bets [$20].
tigerdr calls [$20].
bradph shows [ As, Kd, 6c, 4c ] a flush, queen high.
bradph shows 8,6,5,4,A for low.
landcruiser6 shows [ 7h, Ad, Ah, 6d ] a straight, four to eight.
landcruiser6 shows 8,6,5,4,A for low.
tigerdr doesn't show [ 5d, 9h, Jd, Th ] a straight, eight to queen.
bradph wins $20 from side pot #1 with a flush, queen high.
bradph wins Lo ($20) from side pot #1 with 8,6,5,4,A.
bradph wins $801.05 from the main pot with a flush, queen high.
landcruiser6 wins Lo ($400.53) from the main pot with 8,6,5,4,A.
bradph wins Lo ($400.52) from the main pot with 8,6,5,4,A.

[Trumbull]

I'm 99.9999999% sure but I played with Bradph today at the $100 buy-in PLO8 tables on Party...Did he buy-in short?

[Assani Fisher]

I really don't remember. Clearly though, he doesn't belong playing that high.

[Mendacious]

IMHO the reason is that split-pot games are an order of magnitude more complicated that single pot games, and PL is more complicated than either L, or NL. Put it together, and this game requires tremendously more strategic awareness than most. For that reason I think even though it isn't that hard to gain enough knowlege to play adequately pre-flop, and not that hard to play multi-way post flop, MOST people really do not have the where-with-all to play isolated for their stack post-flop-- which is the key to this game at higher levels.

[Trumbull]

I ended up going to this game and watching and when I went to bed at like 4AM he was sitting with like 5 dimes in front of him so it makes me wonder how hard that game is depending on who is playing...