Fossilman's Account Hacked?

[Peter McDermott]

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Regarding who is responsible for the Poker Boom, (from about.com)

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Harry Orenstein patented the idea of the "hole cam," a camera that would show poker player's hole cards to TV viewers, in 1997.

The hole cam was first used by the Travel Channel in 2003 for the World Poker Tour, and it sheparded in all the TV poker shows that followed.

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If this is correct, and the WPT was the first to use hole cams on TV, then that's a big argument that they had big hand in it.


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If it were true. However, Channel 4's Late Night Poker was
televising poker with hole cards on view as early as 1999.

See here:

http://www.channel4.com/entertainmen..._the_show.html

[bluesbassman]

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Microsoft demanded that PC makers include office on their PC's and and hide the costs from consumers. This forced Lotus out of business.... Microsoft giving away Explorer and forcing Netscape practically out of business.... None of those are coercive acts ?

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Nope, they sure aren't.

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Wal-Mart driving local business out of by under cutting them, then closing those stores to consolodate the market to one regional wal mart... Thats not coercive ?


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Nope, it sure isn't.

[bruceypants]

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Have you not been paying attention ?!?!?

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Yes, I've been paying attention, I'm just not buying Raymer's spin. For one thing, this lawsuit is way more analogous to a lawsuit between GE and Microsoft than it is between your average poker player and the "evil" WPT. 99.99% of poker players will never play on the WPT so this will not affect 99.99% of poker players positively in any way. Furthermore, of those .01% who do play in the WPT (or the WSOP or any big tourney), only .01% of them will ever be offered an endorsement deal. So, this lawsuit could only ever benefit .0001% (1 in 100,000) poker players. This is just a lawsuit between two super-rich organizations and will have no positive benefits whatsoever for the large majority of poker players. For Greg to say that this will benefit other poker players is pure BS.

These 7 poker players signed their rights away before they had an image to sell, just like the American Idol contestants do. Now that the WPT has made them famous, they want all the monies from their images to themselves. It's pure greed and simple greed and nothing else. There is no altruism here.

If you read, the complain, items 57 and 58, all the WPT has done has used footage from one of their tournaments in a video game and at one of their fantasy camps. Big, whoopty [censored]. It's not like they put Raymer's chubby mug on the packaging of the video game and used his unsavory image to try to sell the game. It's only when you start playing the video game do you see a small snippet of footage (I think the footage includes Jesus). The players are making a mountain out of a molehill. I assure you that no one bought the video game to see Chris Ferguson play a hand of poker. For one thing, a consumer wouldn't even know about the footage until they bought the game.

By the way, anyone who doesn't think the income stream of these 7 goofballs won't be relevant is living in a fantasy land. From the complaint:

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63. Exclusion from such donkaments can be devastating to elite, high stakes pro poker players' careers.

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The plaintiffs have made their income streams an issue with that statement (and several others) and it will be discoverable. I'm going to laugh when we all find out that Jesus makes $2 million per year from Full Tilt. Then everyone will be able to see just how greedy these guys really are.



I find this particular item from the complain to be very funny:
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28. A critical input for televised, high stakes poker donkaments is the participation of elite, high stakes pro poker players whose skills and notoriety make the events highly attractive to broadcasters and poker fans.

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http://wptlawsuit.com/files/29194-27742/Complaint.pdf

I guess these self-appointed "elite 7" are not so critical since the WPT is refusing to let them play without signing a release. These guys have way, way over-estimated their importance. The WPT can defintiely survive without the participation of these 7 tools. In fact, their lack of participation is much more likely to benefit the average poker player than this lawsuit, because then average poker players will have a better chancce in these big tourneys.

[bruceypants]

[bruceypants]

Let's make it clear what this lawsuit is about. From the complaint, items 57 and 58, the great atrocities committed by the WPT are:

1) The WPT has used video footage from one of their tourneys inside a WPT video game
2) The WPT has used video footage of a WPT tourney at their fantasy camps.

http://wptlawsuit.com/files/29194-27742/Complaint.pdf

That's it. Despite Raymer's spin, they haven't put Raymer's image on a billboard and used it to try to sell Coke or something. Nope, the WPT has merely used snippets of video footage.

So, the real issue is not whether the WPT should be able to use the players' likenesses, but rather whether the WPT should be able to use WPT video footage not to promote products, but rather within products.

Personally, I think the WPT should be able to use their video footage in this manner. At the very least, the WPT should be able to include language in their release that allows them to use video footage in this manner.

Anyway, now you can see what these 7 goofballs are really after. They want to be paid any time the WPT uses video footage that includes them. These "elite 7" belive they should be paid to appear in WPT broadcasts. They want to have control over how WPT uses any video footage with them in it.

Now that we've gotten down to the real issue in this case, you can see that the WPT is not this evil monster that the 7 plaintiffs are trying to make them out to be. The real issue is whether the WPT should have control over its own broadcast footage. This lawsuit is not about Raymer's image appearing on a billboard without his consent, but rather it is about WPT footage possibly being used to teach at a fantasy camp (or something similar).

I think Annie Duke summed up the feelings of the elite 7 with her recent comment: "We're not even slaves. We're people paying to pick cotton."

[maurile]

brucypants, those allegations are there for tactical reasons to support a claim for damages rather than just an injunction. But the fantasy camps stuff isn't what the suit is really about. It's about getting the release declared unenforceable.

[Quicksilvre]

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I was wondering something along these lines, but I was thinking the PPT, which if I am not mistaken is the same company as the WPT?


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The PPT tournaments were filmed about a year and a half ago, I think, before all of this came to the forefront.

[Kico9]

Hey Greg,

I am an attorney and poker player in Orlando, Florida. I have reviewed your Complaint and I think it has great merit. I know that you and the other Plaintiffs have plenty of money; and thus, have no real monetary reason to bring the suit. I thank you for service you are performing for the poker community as a whole. Hopefully, everyone will be able to come to so settlement that recognizes the efforts of the WPT and fairly compensates the players.

[Quicksilvre]

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but I have heard on numerous occassions where players such as Howard Lederer are saying that not being able to play in the WPT is hurting them by restricting their ability to, what I am assuming is, making a living.

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I believe the lawsuit has more to do about their ability to bring in endorsements--which would likely be difficult if you're not on TV--than their ability to make a living.

[Quicksilvre]

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I thought Daniel was smart enough to understand that maybe he should educate himself on an issue before jumping to (and publicizing) a conclusion. Maybe I was wrong.

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For what it's worth -- and it may be relevant here -- Daniel is also a young-earth creationist.

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Link?

I don't see how it would be relevant, though.