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#61
07-31-2006, 12:13 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
Where do you get your facts from?
France has.. Higher Unemployment MORE discontent among the youth Riots(which are massive) Declarations of Military Law/Curfews in Major Urbans centres Less money (per capita) Women work in the homes more (metric of equality?) Less innovation Less Religious Freedom This all comes from CIA world factbook/bbc. So tell me what again I am suppose to be envious of? More welfare and 2 weeks of vacation? I am pretty sure we have higher life expectancy to. Also would like to see your numbers on historical growth. 
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#62
07-31-2006, 12:25 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
Where do you get your facts from? France has.. Higher Unemployment MORE discontent among the youth Riots(which are massive) Declarations of Military Law/Curfews in Major Urbans centres Less money (per capita) Women work in the homes more (metric of equality?) Less innovation Less Religious Freedom This all comes from CIA world factbook/bbc. So tell me what again I am suppose to be envious of? More welfare and 2 weeks of vacation? I am pretty sure we have higher life expectancy to. Also would like to see your numbers on historical growth. [/ QUOTE ] The only facts that you need to worry about- Everyone is equally miserable. That equals a perfect society! Now only to deal with hmkpoker's small penis.
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#63
07-31-2006, 12:47 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure we have higher life expectancy to. [/ QUOTE ] Not according to this: Life expectancy figures France: 78.76 US: 77.12
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#64
08-16-2006, 04:45 AM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
France has.. Higher Unemployment [/ QUOTE ] I agree that this is a problem...the U.S. has a lot of people not counted in this statistic because it only counts people who are looking for jobs still. But this is not enough to make up the difference. [ QUOTE ] Also would like to see your numbers on historical growth. [/ QUOTE ] These figures were posted by a libertarian in another thread. In terms of growth in productivity/hour, a more important stat, France is far ahead of the U.S. in the same time period. Check it out in figures collected by the U.S gov't, of all sources. [ QUOTE ] MORE discontent among the youth Riots(which are massive) Less Religious Freedom Declarations of Military Law/Curfews in Major Urbans centres [/ QUOTE ] My post is about the labor market; these things are not directly about the labor market. Insofar as these things are effected by the labor market, the negatives you find here are caused by the labor market being not being social enough. People in France do not like capitalism as much as people in the U.S., and they dislike inequality more: they simply have less tolerance for hierarchy. The youth are pissed because of unequal opportunity; the youth in the U.S. have an even less fair playing field, they just care less. If you knew anything concrete about French contemporary history you would not have considered posting this here. These things are one of the reasons why France's labor market is better than the u.s. labor market (people are able to work together against the power of capital in France more effectively). [ QUOTE ] Women work in the homes more (metric of equality?) [/ QUOTE ] This is due to the fact that the U.S. has a lower median income (different from average; in the U.S. the wealthy people are wealthier than they are in France; but the middle and working class people make more per hour than the people in the U.S, even before we take into the substantial effect of taxes and transfers in favor of France). In France more people can 'afford/believe they can afford' to have only one household member working. Furthermore, in the U.S. the women who 'work outside of the homes full-time' still do the vast majority of the work inside the home, even if they work more hours than the man. (Source: The Second Shift by Hochschild. It is far better to do most of the work inside the home and not work full time outside, for most people, than it is for them to do work full time outside AND do the vast majority of the work inside the home. American women, like American men, are working far more hours than their French counterparts. France is doing better here; while less women work outside the home, they still are less dominated by patriarchy than U.S. women are because of the fact of the 2nd shift for working women. [ QUOTE ] Less innovation [/ QUOTE ] Per Capita? How is it measured?
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#65
08-16-2006, 05:45 AM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
In terms of growth in productivity/hour, a more important stat, France is far ahead of the U.S. in the same time period. [/ QUOTE ] How exactly do you measure that? [ QUOTE ] The youth are pissed because of unequal opportunity; the youth in the U.S. have an even less fair playing field, they just care less. [/ QUOTE ] We have more toys.
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#66
08-16-2006, 02:34 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
In terms of growth in productivity/hour, a more important stat, France is far ahead of the U.S. in the same time period [/ QUOTE ] I disagree that this is a relevant statistic. Because marginal productivity is concave. If I only work one hour then I can spend it on the most productive behavior. The 10th hour I work will be spent on the 10th most productive endeavours. So anybody who works less with the same technology might seem to have higher productivity. [ QUOTE ] If you knew anything concrete about French contemporary history you would not have considered posting this here. These things are one of the reasons why France's labor market is better than the u.s. labor market (people are able to work together against the power of capital in France more effectively). [/ QUOTE ] Again by what metric is it better? and how did its history contribute. I did a quick look for growth numbers. I can't find much (only 1994-1998) and its seems to me that france lagged in almost all those years. I stand corrected on the Life Expectancy.
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#67
08-16-2006, 04:11 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From my original source I have a 54.6% growth in per capita GDP in the US and a 50.5% growth in France from 1990 to 2002. [/ QUOTE ] An interesting year to choose to end the comparison. Did a major national economic event occur in France in 2001 aswell? Had the comparison been in August of 2001 i believe that the difference would have been slightly higher than 4%. [ QUOTE ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let us play economic General manager and see if we want to make this trade, U.S economy for French economy: A 4% increase in GDP over a 12 year period in exchange for (note: and this was during a period of relatively strong growth and stability in the U.S. economy!!!): Far lower crime rates. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting as the largest section of the US prison pouplation is directly related to the entirely nonlibertarian "War on drugs". [ QUOTE ] A more healthy populace. [/ QUOTE ] So the government in France decides what you eat, how much you exercise and how much you pay attention to your health? [ QUOTE ] Far more economic and job security. [/ QUOTE ] really? Job security?
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#68
08-16-2006, 04:54 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
Moorobot statistics shopping?
NO WAI!
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#69
08-16-2006, 06:46 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From my original source I have a 54.6% growth in per capita GDP in the US and a 50.5% growth in France from 1990 to 2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An interesting year to choose to end the comparison. Did a major national economic event occur in France in 2001 aswell? Had the comparison been in August of 2001 i believe that the difference would have been slightly higher than 4%. [/ QUOTE ] As I've mentioned, this was posted by a libertarian in another thread. If I wanted to go "statistics shopping", I would use 1970-2002; or 1950-2002, because then France would have a far higher rate of per capita growth than the U.S. [ QUOTE ] Let us play economic General manager and see if we want to make this trade, U.S economy for French economy: A 4% increase in GDP over a 12 year period in exchange for (note: and this was during a period of relatively strong growth and stability in the U.S. economy!!!): Far lower crime rates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting as the largest section of the US prison pouplation is directly related to the entirely nonlibertarian "War on drugs". [/ QUOTE ] We are talking about economic policy here; hence "market". The crime rates I'm thinking of are "other regarding crimes"; France has less violent crime by far, for example, than the U.S. does. [ QUOTE ] A more healthy populace. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So the government in France decides what you eat, how much you exercise and how much you pay attention to your health? [/ QUOTE ] A) The gov't in France is more favorable to unions, which allows workers to have safer and more healthy working conditions. It also is better at providing insurance to its people. B) As Wilkinson and other medical researchers have shown, among the developed countries it is not the richest societies which have the best health, but those which have the smallest income differences between rich and poor Here is some reading for you Research shows why this happens using biology as well as sociology. Egalitarian societies are more socially cohesive. They have a stronger community life and suffer fewer of the many corrosive effects of inequality. Inequality weakens increases the crime rate and damages the health of a society. [ QUOTE ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Far more economic and job security. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- really? Job security? [/ QUOTE ] Do you know what job security means? It means not being fired from your job. This study is not about job security.
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#70
08-16-2006, 06:48 PM
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Re: France\'s social market vs. the U.S.\'s libertarian/less social mark
[ QUOTE ]
Moorobot statistics shopping? [/ QUOTE ] Wow...two more conspiracy theories in three words.
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