Allin every time right?

[Finch]

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The EV is the EV. Intuition is no substitute for math.


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I never attempted to substitute intuition for math. The extra $15 that we don't lose if the button hits nudges your neutral EV situation in favor of wanting both callers. That's what the math says.

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It is EV neutral because the amount of extra money being put into the hand is negated by the decreased odds of you winning the hand once this extra player is involved in the hand.


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This statement is false. And I think that understanding it intuitively is as important as the math. Since we have a better hand than the button, every dollar that he puts into the pot is +EV for us. That is the very nature of having a better hand in an all-in situation. If the tables were turned and you had QQ vs. the button's AA, you would want him to fold intuitively. But the real reason why his fold is better for you is because the amount of extra money being put into the hand is more than offset by the decreased odds of you winning the hand once this extra player is involved in the hand.

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Now if you mean that we win ~$15 in the sense that $15 is better than $0, then I suppose this is a win. But again, who is to say UTG+1 won't be the one to hit his set? And what about the case in which post-flop, only the person who beats you continues with the hand?

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I already stated very clearly that I am all-in before the flop every single time with this hand. I'm not arguing for calling before the flop. I am only saying that we want both opponents to call our all-in.