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  #1  
Old 07-13-2006, 09:50 PM
Spy021 Spy021 is offline
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Default Loose call on a drawing hand?

Recently started playing NL after picking up NLH: TaP. Would like some feedback, specifically on my call on the flop and turn. Thanks in advance!

Reads: Just hit the 2nd orbit on the table so don't have much as far as reads. 2 players that I did have stats folded PF.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|<font color="Green">saw showdown</font>

BB ($17.99)
UTG ($35.23)
UTG+1 ($24.75)
<font color="Green">MP1 ($15.78)</font>
MP2 ($75.74)
<font color="Green">MP3 ($9.75)</font>
CO ($5.15)
<font color="Green">Hero ($44.30)</font>
SB ($6.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, 7. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="Blue">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="Blue">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls $0.25, <font color="Blue">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.25, <font color="Blue">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Called on the button for a single bet hoping to see a good flop.

Flop: ($1.35) J, 4, 6 <font color="Brown">(5 players)</font>
<font color="Red">BB bets $1</font>, UTG calls $1, <font color="Red">MP1 raises to $2</font>, <font color="Red">MP3 raises to $5</font>, Hero calls $5, BB folds, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $10.53, UTG calls $10.53.

Not a terrible flop, I got what I was hoping for in the flush draw. Plus I picked up a backdoor straight draw. Unfortunately, none of my outs are to the absolute nuts, which makes me think that the initial call for $5.00 is a bit loose. However, at this point I am thinking that a couple players have a Jack such as JQ, J10. Others may be on a straight or smaller flush draw. Hopefully, not Ax. After the initial call, I have to call the reraise, but now I'm thinking set (4's or 6's).

Turn: ($40.41) 9 <font color="Brown">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Gladly take the free card... although with 2 players all-in, I'm concerned that if I do make a hand I am not going to get much in the way of payoff.

River: ($40.41) 8 <font color="Brown">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="Red">Hero bets $10</font>, UTG folds.
</font>
I hit my non-nut hand... I've made a draw, which was the sole reason for calling on the flop, so I have to bet it. Just as I feared, I don't get a call from the remaining player with chips. So no potential side-pot for me.

Show down is mostly irrelevant...
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2006, 10:40 PM
AZplaya AZplaya is offline
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Location: pwning NL $50
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

I don't like the flop call with so many players left to act. If you were closing the action, it would be a different story. But your draw isn't really all that strong.
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  #3  
Old 07-13-2006, 10:56 PM
jakerc jakerc is offline
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

i agree, the flop call is too loose for my tastes. even though their raises are pretty small, someone could easily be drawing to a higher flush than you.
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  #4  
Old 07-13-2006, 11:15 PM
younghov17 younghov17 is offline
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

flop call is not good. you called a 5 dollar bet when the biggest stack in the hand only has 3x that to win. which means ur implied odds are 3 to 1 which is less than u hitting your hand. losing call.

you got lucky this time that everyone called the raise but u cant bank on that fact when making these decisions

also with a bet, a raise, and a reraise if u miss turn chances of getting a free river are EXTREMELY low
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  #5  
Old 07-14-2006, 12:12 AM
goofyballer goofyballer is offline
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

[ QUOTE ]
also with a bet, a raise, and a reraise if u miss turn chances of getting a free river are EXTREMELY low

[/ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, the chances are decent that the original bettor and the first raiser will re-raise, opening up the action again. Calling the flop in a situation like this is much better if there aren't two people still to act that have already shown aggression on the street. The possibility of betting being re-opened is a much more important factor in NL than in limit.
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  #6  
Old 07-14-2006, 12:18 AM
Spy021 Spy021 is offline
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

Thanks for all of the comments thus far.. Most of them seem to be inline with my thinking after reviewing the hand.

Although, during the heat of the action I surmised that I was about a 2:1 dog to make my draws (Flush/Straight draws) by the river. Of course, as I stated they were non-nut draws. Once I called the first raise, I felt committed to call the additional raises.
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2006, 12:18 AM
jjigglers jjigglers is offline
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

UTG showed you why your flop call was bad. He obviously had a flush draw (or a really loosely played 35), and it was definately higher than yours. Easy fold on the flop, fairly standard fold preflop.
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  #8  
Old 07-14-2006, 05:23 PM
Spy021 Spy021 is offline
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

[ QUOTE ]
UTG showed you why your flop call was bad. He obviously had a flush draw (or a really loosely played 35), and it was definately higher than yours. Easy fold on the flop, fairly standard fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do follow your logic regarding the fold on the flop. However, for a single bet on the button I cannot see folding this preflop? This hand "should" normally be easy to get away with if you don't flop a draw or hit some other miracle flop 77x, etc.
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2006, 05:56 PM
Antinome Antinome is offline
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Default Re: Loose call on a drawing hand?

no way is this a fold preflop in position. This is sometimes a call for me even facing a raise. Make it T8sooted, and I may reraise.

The flop, however, pretty as it seems, needs to be folded after a raise, raise, and reraise, even if you were closing the action.
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