Trying to learn NL... 88 middle set , questions on every street

[tl65\]

Ok, limit player here, I've been playing strictly NL for about the last two weeks and trying to get the hang of this game.

sorry no hand history, but here it is:

1/2 200 max 9 handed

stacks:
Me:305
MP (seems kinda loose and passive): 70
Button (seems alright, havent payed much attention to him): 175

2 limpers, followed by limp by MP and button, i check in the BB with 88(no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

flop(pot 11):
K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I bet out 9, MP calls, button raises to 24, I call, MP calls

At this point, my thought process is that I have the best hand, MP probably has a flush draw, Button's probably on something like KQ. A 3bet here will probably win the pot outright, but i think a call here is more +EV. Comments on this?

turn(pot 83):
2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

check, check, bet 45, we both call (MP is all in for 44)

At this point, I'm pretty confident that MP has a flush draw and I dont think button will allow a free card, dont want to give him a chance to get away from his hand cheap. Would a checkraise be better here? There's no way MP's folding a flush draw here with only $44 left, but I think it makes it too easy for button to get away from his K.

River(215)
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

What's my play here? Button has 105 left. I checked, but I think a small bet would've been good, because if my reads are right, I dont think button would be able to fold to a $50 bet on the river.

Also, if the heart doesnt come on the river, I think it's an easy all in. Button can't fold a K getting 3:1 on that river, might look like i'm bluffing a missed flush....


So what do you guys think? stick to limit?

[Man of Means]

3-bet the flop, or failing that, bet/3-bet the turn. Your goal with a set is to get all your money in against the top pair and flush draw hands. No one will put you on a set until it's too late. Give your opponents a chance to make a mistake; if they fold, give them gold stars.

River is meh. I guess you're checking to induce a bluff and calling any bet getting at least 3:1.

[Jamougha]

Try not to worry about people folding draws and top pair at 200NL. Just get all in on the flop.

[Your Mom]

either 3 bet flop or c/r all in on turn.

[mic83]

"Try not to worry about people folding draws and top pair at 200NL. Just get all in on the flop."

please this is stupid, how many people in the NL200 full ring calls all in with a flushdraw in an unraised pot?? not many

either 3bet the flop or bet out /checkraise the turn, why on earth would you ever just call the turn

[Jamougha]

[ QUOTE ]

please this is stupid, how many people in the NL200 full ring calls all in with a flushdraw in an unraised pot?? not many

[/ QUOTE ]

True, I missed that it was FR. However given that it's FR his flop raise probably means he has bottom set. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Man of Means]

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please this is stupid, how many people in the NL200 full ring calls all in with a flushdraw in an unraised pot?? not many

[/ QUOTE ]

Something like A9hh or A3hh *might* call here (combo draw) but making the flop 3-bet an all-in does seem like a ridiculous overbet.

[Jamougha]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
please this is stupid, how many people in the NL200 full ring calls all in with a flushdraw in an unraised pot?? not many

[/ QUOTE ]

Something like A9hh or A3hh *might* call here (combo draw) but making the flop 3-bet an all-in does seem like a ridiculous overbet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say push the flop... people get weird and nutty ideas. A nice rr will do, with the intent of getting all in.

(Seriously, when your mother said eat your dinner, did you complain about not being able to fit it all in your mouth at once?)

[SilverLining1]

I like your logic as to the button and maximizing value from him and not scaring his King away. However, you are allowing MP in so cheap on the flop and then on the turn that it makes this play difficult to like. You really need to be putting pressure on MP early on, pricing him out.

So, the first question is what is button raising with here on the flop?: Button's raise to 24 means he is strong - he could have bottom set, he could have K8 (not uncommon for this level). Most likely he has KJ or KQ and is over playing it OR Ah9h and is making the right play and needs to be priced out too!

So to the hand: There is 53 in the pot when it gets to you. MP has 61 left. You know you are getting MP's money in now, so the last thing you want to do is play this passively and give MP great odds. Also, did you ever think about what will happen if a heart shows up on the turn? Button is going to stop betting, perhaps (he did on the river, right?), and at the same time, you are going to be committed to MP's made hand. So you need to price MP out while hoping to keep the button in. How do you do that?

Say to reraise to 80 here. Button is going to call a lot, so you get his money in there and you are well ahead. Now there is 190 in the pot and 56 more for button to call. Well, if button is weak, you may very well see his money go in there with KQ. If he has a set, boom, you're gold. K8? Ship it, holla! If he has a terribly misplayed flush draw, you are good too. But let's say button folds - well, you just built yourself a $190 pot giving yourself excellent odds to win against isolated short stack. that's what you want.

[Man of Means]

Great post, silver.