What is patriotism?

[Nielsio]

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i do commend our troops and support each and every one of them.

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our country is not being attacked and our troops are not fighting for freedom ..

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So ever though you understand they are actually being the aggressor and killing hundreds of thousands of innocents children, parents, brothers, sisters, elders, etc. ; you still support their actions?

Is this a joke? Because you are openly displaying psychopathic behaviour.

[QuadsOverQuads]

Clearly, patriotism means blind allegiance to the Republican Party, George W Bush and Pat Robertson. It means smearing your opponents as communists, socialists or simply "enemies of the state". It means celebrating words like "freedom" on holidays while working every other day to suppress those same freedoms for Americans who don't agree with you. It means celebrating "American history", while simultaneously believing that Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D Roosevelt were agents of Satan. It means believing in freedom of religion for every religion that happens to be yours. It means accusing everyone who disagrees with you of supporting terrorists and gay abortionists.

Patriotism means "loving America" so much that you want to "cleanse it" of the 99% of Americans that you hate.

Patriotism means that torturing prisoners is ok.

Patriotism means that secret prisons are ok.

Patriotism means blindly supporting any war that the Party supports, no matter how many lies were told to get us there.

Patriotism means lengthy weather reports, while the crookedness of the regime in power goes unmentioned.

Patriotism means silence in the face of corruption.

Patriotism means amending the Constitution as a publicity stunt.

Patriotism means 7 trillion dollars in national debt, the looting of the treasury, and criminal neglect of America's national infrastructure.

Patriotism means you can wave a flag and all of this becomes ok.

Just as long as your followers are stupid enough to buy it.


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[hmkpoker]

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Just wondering, what are your stances on political issues? (economic policy, the war, education, health care, drugs, etc)

For the record, I'm not trying to steer this toward AC if that's what you're wondering [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[matrix]

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Second, you need to realize that attacking the flag, the pledge of allegience and other symbols ARE personal attacks against those of us who served to save your chicken sh!t ass.

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Personal attacks should not be tolerated but you are stetching the definition of them here - I note as well that you frequently rewrite profanities to get around the inbuilt filter which as far as I am aware is not permitted on these forums either. Please abide by the rules.

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How old are you, little man?

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is this "buy-one-get-one-free day" for personal insults?

Does your vocabulary not extend far enough so you can debate people on public forums and keep within the posted rules?

Size doesn't matter - and age doesn't neccesarily qualify your opinion in any way.

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You live in a sheltered world of "ideas". We live in the real world.

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I live in the real world - I am beginning to think that some of your mental faculties might have migrated into fantasy land.

In the "real world" I live in, all around me I see fear being used by politicians to secure their grip on power - you guys have what appears to be a bumbling buffoon for a President elected soley because he's a "Good War President" at a time when there was no need to even have a war! - then you allow this guy and his minions to throw $billions into the defense department while your national deficit is mushrooming. The Politics of fear is growing on the back of "Islamic Terror" when it's not nearly the spectre of Doom it's made out to be. The more fear the politicians spin the more power they get - and people anyone who speaks out against what is happening in "the real world" gets shouted out for not being a Patriot! - as I see it the wool is being pulled over the eyes of the American people bigtime and sooner or later somethings going to give.

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In the past I was strongly opposed to a draft. After reading this board and some blogs, I think mandatory service of some kind is necessary to right this sinking ship.

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So that everyone is forced to undergo state sponsored brainwashing?

Personally I'd rather be publically executed by my Goverment than drafted into the military - I couldn't ever kill another person directly or indirectly (by manufacturing ammunition or something like that) - nothing good EVER comes from war.

Military peronnel are trained to obey NOT to think for themselves - a moments hesitation on the battlefield could be the difference between success or failure - consequently the troops are trained NOT to think - ergo they are brainwashed - their behavior becomes a conditioned response to a situation.

Perhaps "brainwashed" is too strong a term "mentally conditioned" might be more appopriate.

I think forcing young children to recite the PoA in American schools is despicable and ought to be stopped - teach the PoA by all means - explain to the children what it means - why it's there - and that plenty of past Americans have felt strongly enough about it to go and fight and die for their country, but don't force them to recite it everyday - Patriotism towards your country is like respect it ought to be earned and not stolen.

Of course you won't have read any of this because you still have your fingers stuck in your ears, as you've bought into the Government sponsored propoganda about "Conspiracy Theorists"

*sigh*

[ALawPoker]

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Patriotism is devotion or love for your country.

Patriotism is neither positive or negative in the abstract.

"My country right or wrong" is an emotional sentiment, just like "blood is thicker than water." It is neither inherently wrong nor inherently stupid to form emotional attachments, even to one's country.

Many angry liberals are patriotic. They are angry because something they care about is being screwed up. Patriotism may be devotion to one's country, but it doesn't have to be mindless devotion and it doesn't have to be devotion to the government.

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Quoted for perhaps being the only intelligent thing said in this thread.

OP, and hmk, and company, what's the big deal? Whether the pledge should be forced upon people in schools is a seperate issue, and one I tend to agree with you guys on, but what's so wrong about patriotism in its pure, voluntary sense?? Seriously, answer me. What's the big deal and why does it bother you?

Not everyone who is proud of their country ends up contributing to some sort of holocaust, as the strawmen in this thread would like you to believe (for what motivations, I'm still unaware).

I happen to love living in this country. I happen to love our lifestyle, and disagreeing with most of what Washington thinks doesn't really make me any less proud to be an American. It doesn't mean that I think my country is objectively superior to anyone else's. I love my family too, and to some degree feel my family is the best one in the world. Is this wrong? Most people have a common emotional attachment to whatever region or society they hail from. Are you wrong to be proud of who you are and where you come from?

Seriously, if someone from Germany or whatever came to you and said "Ya know, I'm damn proud to call myself a German!" then you (I guess I'm looking at hmk here) would probably be like ya man, that's cool. Somehow your hatred of American politics leads you to believe that Americans don't have this same right, without you looking down on them. It's really a [censored] up view (especially considering its place in your overall political ideology), and you should probably put more thought into it.

[Copernicus]

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first i dont think the pledge should be eliminated. i dont think the god part should have been added for political reasons. that isnt what the pledge is. if it is then it should be abolished. kids should never have to pledge anything in school. no one should. the school is n ot the place to make someone pledge. and it isnt voluntary as a young kid doesnt have the real option not to do it as he gets punished severly from others mentally.
as far as brainwashing the military does it constantly. any hipe about fighting for your country is berainwashing as with many other things. you go to war and fight and die to protect your country not to defend a politicians bad decisions or even good ones. you fight when there is no choice. without the hipe and brainwashing and making recruits scared of punishment wouldnt thinking people, not go fight in some of these places. when you join its not optional where they send you.
i do commend our troops and support each and every one of them. but i dont have to agree with the process of the military on how they get the troops and what they do with them. those that blindly follow orders from any source are indeed brainwashed in my mind. our country is not being attacked and our troops are not fighting for freedom they are fighting, defending lies and the fact that saadam wanted to get bush sr.

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more evidence that someone can be great at one thing and not have a clue about others

[BCPVP]

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more evidence that someone can be great at one thing and not have a clue about others

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And the string of ad hominems continues...

[Copernicus]

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more evidence that someone can be great at one thing and not have a clue about others

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And the string of ad hominems continues...

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And the string of not understanding what an ad hominen is continues

[BCPVP]

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more evidence that someone can be great at one thing and not have a clue about others

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And the string of ad hominems continues...

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And the string of not understanding what an ad hominen is continues

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"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin, literally "argument against the person") or attacking the messenger, involves replying to an argument or assertion by attacking the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

So you were actually responding to Ray's point and and not attacking him for not having a clue?

[Copernicus]

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more evidence that someone can be great at one thing and not have a clue about others

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And the string of ad hominems continues...

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And the string of not understanding what an ad hominen is continues

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"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin, literally "argument against the person") or attacking the messenger, involves replying to an argument or assertion by attacking the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

So you were actually responding to Ray's point and and not attacking him for not having a clue?

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translate my statement:

you are good at some things, you are wrong here.

there is no attempt to falsify his argument by reference to some attribute, there is no attempt to falsify his argument at all, just denial, but that doesnt constitute ad hominen.

Ad hominen is a phrase thrown around by those who want to sound smarter than they are and misused more often than correctly used, as in your case.