The Vegetarian Torture

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love this thread.

I don't hate vegetarians, but I think they are often self-righteous and pompous about their choices, e.g., all of Elaine's references to "eating flesh," and the like.

I also find some vegetarians ridiculous, i.e., the ones who believe that animals have "rights" and who somehow equate dogs, cats, cows, etc. with humans. "We all share the same earth," garbage like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to say that ELaine and Edward have never said one censorious thing to me about the fact that I eat meat and seafood. We eat together as a family at least once a week, and I am always consulted about what I can/cannot eat whether we are going out or eating a home-cooked meal. Edward called me yesterday with the recipe for the evening's main dish to be sure I could eat it. When we go to a restaurant I order meat or fish (mostly fish), and the rest of the family get something vegetarian--except for little Joey who usually gets chicken.

I have very stringent dietary restrictions, and for various reasons I cannot eat legumes, most raw salad veggies, eggs (I am restricted to very few), and most cheeses (which are too high in fat and sodium). Basically my two sources of protein are non-fat dairy products (which must be limited because of the carbs) and meat/fish (especially fish). I love fruits and vegetables and eat as much of those as my diet strictures and digestion permit.

I accept the fact that Edward's health has improved since he became a vegetarian. He lost weight (the vegetarian choice keeps him out of the fast food joints) and his blood chemistry improved significantly. I also appreciate his concern about factory farming and the mass use of hormones and antibiotics in modern animal husbandry. I do not think it is good to add those hormones/antibiotics to the human diet, and I have certainly reduced the quantity of meat I consume (I am restricted to a portion size of 2-3 ounces--think half a burger).

I, however, do not have a moral/ethical problem with eating meat/fish/poultry and other animal-derived foods (dairy, eggs, honey). Our anatomy and physiology (dentition, digestive apparatus, need to obtain certain amino acids in our diet) clearly indicate that we are omnivores, just as cats are carnivores and cows are herbivores. We are designed to eat animal protein, just as we are also designed to eat fruits and vegetables. Nature has its food chains, and we happen to be at the top of one. If we venture out of our domain and enter the ocean, we may end up being prey for the sharks at the top of that food chain.

If eating meat and fish has ethical and moral problems for some, if not for me, I think that the exploitation of migrant (and often illegal) workers by fruit and vegetable growers also presents moral and ethical problems. I did, after all, participate in the great grape boycott back in the day.

The world is an imperfect place, and each of us needs to find his/her own way to bring about a small improvement. In current Jewish thinking this is called tikkun olam (healing the world)--(usually) small unilateral acts that make an improvement. For some tikkun olam may be vegetarianism, for others something else.

Plants (for the most part) live by photosynthesis. Animals feed from other life forms. That's just the way it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to second many of the thoughts in this.

Specifically, I have eaten several meals with Elaine and never once has she even hinted at disgust, revulsion or affront at my meal choices (which frequently include multiple courses of dead animal). In fact, she and Ed not only agreed to come to Delmonico with me and my girlfriend once (not exactly a veggie friendly place - not a single veggie entree on the menu) she didn't even say anything despite my likely obnoxious ingestion of a medium rare filet. Further, having been raised Catholic, it took me two instances of eating with her to have it fully sink in that she didn't find seafood of any type acceptible (yes, I'm slow). Despite my screwup the second time, when offering her some shrimp when her and Ed were at my house, again she was nothing but gracious as she declined.

In short, be careful how you judge people based on their writings. I've certainly made my share of veggie jokes over the years, and I find many of Evan's posts in this thread to be very funny, but by her *non-judgementalism in real life*, Elaine has set an example to me that has made me infinitely more tolerant and understanding - even helped me grow up a little bit.

[junglewarfare]

Perhaps Elaine (and practically every other poster on 2p2, myself included) should treat people the way they do in real life rather than always trying to jump down other people's throat and show them how much of a stupid [censored] donkey moron they are.

[Minimalist]

[ QUOTE ]


Go to eat w/ an Indian kid.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Paluka,

Is your kid born yet?

When I was growing up, my mother tried to raise me to make my bed every morning. Eventually she gave up. Sometimes kids are not able to be exactly what you want them to be. I wish you luck with rasing the little vegetarian, but don't be too dissapointed if your child doesn't cooperate.

[/ QUOTE ]

My kid is about 4.5 months old. I hope he grows up to be exactly what he wants to be, and if that ends up being exactly what I wanted him to be I'll count myself lucky.

[Dids]

Really tempted to post a photoshop of your kid with a burger in his mouth but won't.

[ElaineMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
Elaine:

I have no problem with you being a vegetarian. It is a choice like anything else.

But if you really want to make difference in the earth then you really should not have a cat. Domesticated cats cause more problems to the environment than any other animal. They absolutely destroy animal populations and completely change ecosystems. If you really want to do some good you should put down your cat and any cat you see. I'm being serious here too, I'll find some articles so you don't think I'm just blowing smoke up your ass.

I'm assuming your cat is an indoor cat b/c you are LV, so it won't have quite the impact, but in general domesticated cats are horrible for the environment - far worse than eating meat has ever done.

just some food for thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that already. My cats are indoor cats. And I always tell people they should keep their cats indoor for this and for many other reasons.

[CallMeIshmael]

Paluka,

your kid comes to you at age X and says "Id like to get into online poker. Will you let me do this? Maybe some tips?"

How big does X have to be before you say OK?


(this has nothing to do with vegetarian stuff, you just seem like a reasonable person, and Im curious)

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Paluka,

your kid comes to you at age X and says "Id like to get into online poker. Will you let me do this? Maybe some tips?"

How big does X have to be before you say OK?


(this has nothing to do with vegetarian stuff, you just seem like a reasonable person, and Im curious)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know the answer to something like this yet. I'm making stuff up as I go.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Elaine:

I have no problem with you being a vegetarian. It is a choice like anything else.

But if you really want to make difference in the earth then you really should not have a cat. Domesticated cats cause more problems to the environment than any other animal. They absolutely destroy animal populations and completely change ecosystems. If you really want to do some good you should put down your cat and any cat you see. I'm being serious here too, I'll find some articles so you don't think I'm just blowing smoke up your ass.

I'm assuming your cat is an indoor cat b/c you are LV, so it won't have quite the impact, but in general domesticated cats are horrible for the environment - far worse than eating meat has ever done.

just some food for thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

domestic cats hunt more species of animals than any other predator on the planet

and cause major problems in many areas where they aren't native

[ElaineMonster]

[ QUOTE ]

Specifically, I have eaten several meals with Elaine and never once has she even hinted at disgust, revulsion or affront at my meal choices (which frequently include multiple courses of dead animal). In fact, she and Ed not only agreed to come to Delmonico with me and my girlfriend once (not exactly a veggie friendly place - not a single veggie entree on the menu) she didn't even say anything despite my likely obnoxious ingestion of a medium rare filet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe, I was so drunk you could have slaughtered the animal right then and there and I probably wouldn't have noticed.
(That was a joke. Please DO NOT do that next time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Further, having been raised Catholic, it took me two instances of eating with her to have it fully sink in that she didn't find seafood of any type acceptible (yes, I'm slow). Despite my screwup the second time, when offering her some shrimp when her and Ed were at my house, again she was nothing but gracious as she declined.

[/ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I didn't even notice you forgot. I just assumed you were trying to be nice and trying to feed me.

[ QUOTE ]
In short, be careful how you judge people based on their writings. I've certainly made my share of veggie jokes over the years, and I find many of Evan's posts in this thread to be very funny, but by her *non-judgementalism in real life*, Elaine has set an example to me that has made me infinitely more tolerant and understanding - even helped me grow up a little bit.

[/ QUOTE ]
Shhh... you're ruining my reputation. Pretty soon you're going to say El Diablo is a nice guy, too.