Heaven, hell, and the afterlife

[Peter666]

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The amount of evil one can get away with in life would make anyone with a reasonable sense of justice go mad if there is no punishment after death.

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I must be one evil [censored], then. Not that I have any doubt you think I belong in hell, Petey.

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Yeah, you comfortably fit between Stalin and Hitler [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[revots33]

It seems like a lot of the belief in an afterlife is concerned with the idea of justice. It is consoling to think that an innocent child who starves to death in Africa will be rewarded with eternal happiness, while an evil man like Hitler will be punished with eternal torment. But. because an idea is consoling, does that make it likely?

Speaking strictly from reason... given the fact that all this worldly injustice would drive men mad - would not that be a compelling argument for why man would have, out of necessity, invented the idea of some sort of life after death where the scales of justice would finally be balanced?

It just seems that there are so many compelling reasons why man might have made this idea up, that to assume it's probably true is ignoring all the compelling arguments why it is probably an invention of the human mind.

To me, the idea of a just afterlife is the ultimate "out" for God. We can praise God when something good happens to us in this life, and believe he has answered our prayers. But, there is no earthly horror or suffering too horrific to be countered by the argument of eternal bliss after death.

[bluesbassman]

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So, why do you believe/not believe in heaven and hell?



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I do not believe in an "afterlife." My consciousness/self awareness is, as far as I know, a direct consequence of neural firings in my brain. I do not know what it means, nor can I make any sense out of claims that I will continue to be "alive" or "aware" after I die, i.e., after my neural activity ceases.

Claims of an "afterlife," are, in effect, that we will experience sensations of neural activity with no brain. This is all a load of rubbish, imho.

[Peter666]

I think it is true that man would have to make up Heaven and Hell through his reason due to the injustices of life if he wanted to cope and survive.

Yet that same reason would tell him he is living a lie thus not giving him any reason to live. The consequences are metaphysical suicide.

Generally, those who reject eternal justice can do so because they live a fairly comfortable and safe existence in this present life. In other words, they are spoiled. If they were living in sub-human conditions, like a poor country in Africa, their ideas would quickly change. They would either kill themselves, or come to eternal conclusions to cope with life.

[revots33]

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Yet that same reason would tell him he is living a lie thus not giving him any reason to live. The consequences are metaphysical suicide.


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I see your point, although I think you are underestimating man's ability to convince himself of true belief in something that doesn't exist, if he wants to believe it enough.

For example, the suicide pilots who flew the planes into the Word Trade Center believed that 72 virgins would be awaiting them in paradise after they died. Now, many would probably see this plainly as a man-made fiction. And in fact without this fiction, it might be difficult to recruit suicide bombers. But, whether or not this truly will happen to them after death, it is still believed by the bombers just as strongly as Christians believe they will go to heaven. Neither belief is inherently more logical than the other.

In other words, no one actually believes they are living a lie, although obviously many people are. I credit that to man's ability to deceive himself, more than to evidence for heaven's existence.

[Peter666]

I agree that there is no reasonable proof to prove in a specific type of afterlife. Whether it is a perfect paradise, 72 virgins, or Hades, this comes down to a matter of faith.

But I think it is reasonable and natural to think of an afterlife of some sort, due to the fact that we are able to have non material and abstract ideas. It is the common conclusion of almost all civilizations, and even primitive peoples.

[Peter666]

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Exactly!

Christians, Jews and Muslims are more than happy to fight over their "one" god.

One god?

Why can't they agree?

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It would be a good point if it were true. But the Holy Trinity and Allah different beliefs altogether. Jews and Christians emerged from the same Father, but the Jews reject the Son and the notion of Trinity.

Those people who claim that the three religions worship the same God know nothing about the respective religions.