GOSH-DARN MINRAISERS

[Big_Jim]

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I have actually bothered to think about this exact scenario and have taken a poll from 2+2-ers on the subject. I stated that most respondents think the min-raise means the nuts. I doubt this majority view is "completely incorrect", although it is certainly not impossible that you are miles ahead of the average poster.

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I looked at your poll, and you seem to be drawing incorrect conclusions from the results.

Even if the plurality of the time, it was the nuts (which it wasn't, even in your poll), the sum of the other possibilities was greater.

FWIW, in my personal experience, it's a marginal made hand FAR more often than anything else, which wasn't even a choice on your poll.

Whether or not this is a fold can be discussed, but a raise is terrible, under typical conditions.

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If you merely call you have delayed the exact same difficult decision to the turn, whilst potentially paying off better hands in the process.

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No, it's not exactly the same situation. Not by a longshot. The turn is a whole new street, and if you can't get some kind of feel for where he's at, based on his bet sizing/timing/etc. then this is a decent chance to start getting that read. He might let you showdown cheap, in which case you get information. He might even check! Sure you pay off worse hands a bit, but you do the same by raising, and you are going to get blown off your hand all day long by folding good hands like this to a min-raise, every time.

Furthermore, by not re-raising, we allow him to keep firing at us with his KJ or bluff or whatever he has, that he very well might have folded to a re-raise.

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His small bet might mean the nuts, his large bet could mean the nuts, a non-bet could be a slow-play.

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True, true, and true. It's up to us to try to figure out which one, and this pot isn't that big, and can be a good way to figure out his style.

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Perhaps though you hit one of your 5 outs. Would you usually call a large bet with 5 outs?

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Uhm.. what? What large bet?

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If you do is your 2-pair good or does he now have the full-house?

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We play like we have the best hand, and try to maximize against worse hands. If we're beat, we learn and move on.

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Over 80% of online players are losers, I wonder what percentage of 2+2-ers pay their mortgage from the game like I do.

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Jesus, I didn't realize you were such a badass.

[slartibartfast]

1. your poll is pretty much useless. sample size, lack of a random sampling, not to mention voting could include players of limits from 25 NL to 2k NL.

- I haven't submitted the poll to serious academic review, merely looked for the opinions of a few mid-stakes players (other than myself) you fool.

2. this is not a "fold or raise situation". call is far better than both options imo. you obviously dont see why.

- Explain why being a calling station is excellent strategy, earn 5 gold stars.

3. you have position.

- 10 bonus points.

4. if you raise the flop, do you think he continues with a weaker K?

- If you don't raise, has he got a draw, 2-pair or trips?

5. if you call the flop, and he bets 1/2 pot to pot on the turn, and you raise him all in, do you think he continues with a weaker K?

- If you raise him all-in, and he calls with trips would you feel like an idiot?

6. if you raise flop, do you think he continues with a bluff?

- If he's bluff raising you but has a draw, could he out-draw your one pair?

7. if you call flop, do you think theres a chance he bluffs again on the turn?

- If you're bluffing, do you fire once then quit? Are you totally inept?

seriously yvesaint. this stuff should be obvious.

[knifeyspoony]

A lot of players exclusively use the miniraise.
It either means they have a monster, they have top pair (any kicker) and they don't want to commit, they think you're bluffing and they don't want to commit. Or they're randomly pressing buttons. Either option is equally plausible depending on the player.

[jsnipes28]

Call, AI on turn like couple others said. If you play relatively aggressive people will try and fck with u with much worse hands as well as air and obviously sets/two pair.

On another note:
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Over 80% of online players are losers, I wonder what percentage of 2+2-ers pay their mortgage from the game like I do.


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You must suck if you had to get a mortgage on your house. Me and most other 2p2ers paid straight cash homie for our dorm rooms. If you wanna PM though i can probably arrange for a cookie to be sent recognizing your achievement.

[knifeyspoony]

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You must suck if you had to get a mortgage on your house. Me and most other 2p2ers paid straight cash homie for our dorm rooms. If you wanna PM though i can probably arrange for a cookie to be sent recognizing your achievement.

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I won my house when my straight/flush draw hit. 47% chance I'd have ended up homeless.

[slartibartfast]

Big Jim,

Take a look at Phil Gordon's website, he's a bigger poker badass than all of us put together. He's done research at the mid stakes level to find out what the min-raise means, and for sure my poll is extremely limited but it converges in it's small degree on what he also found ("I am a doofus" hardly counts).

The large bet I mentioned was in terms of the pot, not in absolute terms. In my experience although again limited by sample size, min-raises tend to mean the nuts. If you're beat, find out sooner rather than later and move on to the next hand.

[Big_Jim]

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1. your poll is pretty much useless. sample size, lack of a random sampling, not to mention voting could include players of limits from 25 NL to 2k NL.

- I haven't submitted the poll to serious academic review, merely looked for the opinions of a few mid-stakes players (other than myself) you fool.

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That's good, because that poll is essentially worthless.

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2. this is not a "fold or raise situation". call is far better than both options imo. you obviously dont see why.

- Explain why being a calling station is excellent strategy, earn 5 gold stars.

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Explain how calling a bet makes you a "calling station" earn 20 sklanskybucks.

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3. you have position.

- 10 bonus points.

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Not understanding the implications of this -20 sklanskybucks

Inconsistancy between using "points" and "gold stars" - 5 skalnskybucks

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4. if you raise the flop, do you think he continues with a weaker K?

- If you don't raise, has he got a draw, 2-pair or trips?

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Who knows? But at least we have a good chance to have the best hand.

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5. if you call the flop, and he bets 1/2 pot to pot on the turn, and you raise him all in, do you think he continues with a weaker K?

- If you raise him all-in, and he calls with trips would you feel like an idiot?

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No. But he sure will, when he calls with K9

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6. if you raise flop, do you think he continues with a bluff?

- If he's bluff raising you but has a draw, could he out-draw your one pair?

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Sure, but he might keep donating, even if he misses.

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7. if you call flop, do you think theres a chance he bluffs again on the turn?

- If you're bluffing, do you fire once then quit?

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Uh... not usually. And that's kind of the point of calling.

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Are you totally inept?

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WTF, this was out of line for no good reason.


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seriously yvesaint. this stuff should be obvious.

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What stuff? You didn't say ANYTHING in this post.

[Dan BRIGHT]

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- If you raise him all-in, and he calls with trips would you feel like an idiot?


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I can say with 100% certainty that villain never has trips here.

Best Regards, Dan

[wyoak]

He's got what, $200 behind...what amount are you planning to raise to that you can fold if he pushes?

[yvesaint]

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- If you raise him all-in, and he calls with trips would you feel like an idiot?


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awesome, i love results-oriented analysis.

sorry dude. when someone gets like this i see no point in continuing, because you obviously havent read a single thing ive posted, and you obviously arent changing your mind - i might as well not try.

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and btw - your poll was 100% worthless. regardless of your "academic review" statement. all it showed was 2+2ers know how to click buttons