Can you Ace my quiz?

[Big_Jim]

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All,

I think that calling in hand 4 for purely set value is wrong.

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Missed this. You are right.

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We're throwing $2.50 into a pot that will has $5, with an opponent who is going to c-bet us virtually 100% of the time when we hit our set (that should be an extra $6-$7.50). That's giving us a pretty solid look at 5-to-1 odds, plus anything we can squeeze out of him after that. Set draws are 7.5-to-1 against, so if we can grab an extra $10 out of him on the turn and/or river, we're making a profit. After his c-bet and our call, we'll have a pot with $20ish; I think our implied odds are just fine here.

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If you win $20ish, you are just breaking even. And that's in a very optimistic scenario where villain flops something and he actually wants to put more than just a C-bet in.

Compare that to raising preflop. He'll fold most of his garbage hands incorrectly, since garbage hands are actually not bad vs 33. He'll call with many speculative hands which he will often fold incorrectly postflop. And occassionally he will "slowplay" a big hand. In those occasions we're very unlike to lose our stack, but he is in great danger of doing so.

Just put yourself in villain's shoes and think of how you would play a hand like 66 from the button in a re-raised pot. If you're button here, do you want the BB to re-raise preflop? Do you want to call a flop bet without hitting your set?

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Word.

[KingOfSwords]

Hand 4: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is only a 53/45 favorite against 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and that's one of our better scenarios(lowest unsuited, overcards of the same suits as our hole cards that can't make a straight with both cards.) We only have a big edge against 22 or 3x.

I haven't ventured into NL100 six and can't even beat NL50 six, but I play 33 for set value only unless I'm heads up, maybe three-way. I'm going to have no idea where I stand on a three-overcard flop.

If I'm not getting the implied odds to call the raise on hand 4 (and I don't see why I'm not getting them, to be honest), I would just fold.

Pokey: [ QUOTE ]
We're throwing $2.50 into a pot that will has $5, with an opponent who is going to c-bet us virtually 100% of the time when we hit our set (that should be an extra $6-$7.50). That's giving us a pretty solid look at 5-to-1 odds, plus anything we can squeeze out of him after that.

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Sounds like the implied odds are there. Does that mean, though, that we're checking the set if we make it so he can c-bet? We're OOP, and Pokey already told us what that sucks.

Valar: [ QUOTE ]
You're not thinking about the strength of the hand, you're re-raising basing on the crappiness of opponents hand.

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This is like when you have a shortie who open pushes preflop often and you're looking at KQs. Yes, there's a good chance he's raising with any PP or even utter crap, but do you want to call that push with it? A6o is beating KQs heads up, as bad as A6o is and as much as I like KQs as a starting hand.

Paul: [ QUOTE ]
At the same time, even if you do flop a set, you’re unlikely to get paid-off since most flops miss your opponent.

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Why ever play for the set heads-up, then?

Great discussion by the way.

[viper930]

1: Fold
2: Call
3: Call
3: Call

[NewUser2006]

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Well you have to re-raise from the blinds with hands other than your BPP. AQ (sometimes) is a good candidate. You dominate a large proportion of his range. You hit top pair top/good kicker 30% of the time. You shouldn't mind going to the felt with those hands, with so much of your stack in preflop.

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So, we shouldn't mind stacking ourselves with these speculative hands because we're pot-committed preflop, but we should reraise preflop in order to pot-commit ourselves postflop? This line of reasoning strikes me as circular, risky, and typically unprofitable.

Think of it this way: if we smooth call against this aggressive opponent and check to him on the flop every time, he's going to c-bet, and his c-bet would be about as large as our preflop raise. Now, which is better: committing that money to the pot preflop when we know very little about our hand other than that it is speculative, or committing that money POST-flop when we know we've got something worth chasing?

Similar line of reasoning: our preflop raise knocks out some of the more speculative hands that we fare VERY well against (moreso with AQo than with 33, here), whereas those hands will commit the same amount of money just about 100% of the time on the flop if checked to. Is it better to let our opponent escape with a $3.50 loss when he's got A4o, or would we rather get him to spend $10 on the same hand by letting him c-bet uselessly?

We're not getting all the money into the pot preflop (well, we'd BETTER not be -- that would be a huge mistake), so we're going to have to play our hand postflop. Against a savvy and aggressive opponent who has position, I'd rather have as little money in the middle as possible before I have to decide if I want to go to war.

I guess I'm still not convinced of the efficacy of reraising preflop OOP with speculative hands, especially heads-up against smart and aggressive opponents.

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The profit from raising AQo in this position comes from your superior preflop equity, not postflop equity. That and the fact that you'll be the one applying pressure on the flop, and will likely be able to represent at least 3 big cards (A,Q,K).

On the other hand, if you just call, you're probably folding the flop 2/3 of the time, often with the best hand. I think that calling here is just throwing away your money, where you could have pushed your equity edge preflop quite a bit.

[RubbleRobble]

fold, you are dominated or flipping, not a nice set of situations

call for set value

call. raising here sucks because he is smart and aggressive and being OOP makes this dangerous. the people that said raise, do you realize you are making the pot bigger? the bigger the pot, then more likely this guy is gonna try to take it from you...

call for set value cause sets are s00ted.

[sdfsdf]

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raising here sucks because he is smart and aggressive and being OOP makes this dangerous. the people that said raise, do you realize you are making the pot bigger? the bigger the pot, then more likely this guy is gonna try to take it from you...

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if he's smart and aggressive he'll either fold his 58s to a re-raise and think twice before raising you with a crap hand, call with 66 and fold a missed flop, or get frustrated with your re-raises and call and hopefully your 36% to hit the flop will come through and you'll be able to take it down.

[Paul Thomson]

You play for a set heads up when you have GOOD IMPLIED ODDS that your opponent will have a strong hand like in Hand 2.

[Wolfram]

*grunch*

Hand 1:
Fold. You are crushed by his range and if he can play aggressive smart post-flop he won't pay you off with a PP when you hit TPTK.

Hand 2: 5-10 rule sez call!!!

Hand 3:
Tough one. We're crushing his range, but being oop sucks and if we rr and he calls our c-bet we're screwed. Still, I probably re-raise and hope to take it down preflop.

Hand 4:
Depends if he's a floater. Probably re-raise tho. If he's like the majority of NL100 players he'll instantly put us on QQ+/AK+ and play carefully. Even if he calls our c-bet he might check the turn and we get a free card.

Edit: I though we had the button in the last one (hence the check-behind plan on the turn). Now it's an obvious 5-10 call IMO.

[snakekilla88]

hand 1: FOLD
hand 2: Call
hand 3:RAISE
hand 4: Mostly call maybe occasionally Raise.

[WoodyWoahzay]

Hand 1 - If we're sure thats what his range is then i'd just fold. In postion I might call him, oop I'd fold.

Hand 2 - I call. We have good implied odds in this hand and seeing as we are simply looking for a set here, the ease of post flop play negates our posistional disadvantage.

Hand 3 - Re raise and expect to take down the pot there most of the time.

Hand 4 - Re raise mainly but also sometimes call.