This "so called" Nigerian stuff

[ManyBeers]

" Checks can legally take 10 BUISNESS days to be sucessfully credited to your account"

Would you please tell me exactly what this statement means .

[ManyBeers]

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Up until a few months ago I was a Fraud Investigator for a major financial institution (which shall remain nameless). Hopefully I can clear up some confusion.

::: It is called a "Nigerian Scam" based on the fact that most scams of this type agenerally come from Nigeria. They also can come from Canada, the UK, Phillipines, or other countries. The underlying theme is that they are always foreign sources.

::: The scammer most likely got ahold of your ad via the online version of the LVRJ. Almost all newspapers put thier want ads online.

"Why am I responsible?"
::: When you endorse the back of the check, you take responsibility for the items funds. you've basically said "yup, I know this check is good and take responsibility for it if it bounces or is uncollectable." It's not drawn off a nigerian bank because foreign funds take MONTHS to collect. It is by most likely a counterfeit drawn off a bank in the United States (usually in a remote region such as New York or LA). They can also be counterfeit Cashiers Checks that look very real, as well a United States Postal Money Orders.

According to banking regulations, financial institutions must release funds in draft (read: checking) accounts according to a release schedule based on location of the issuing bank as well as the ammount of the check. Checks can legally take 10 BUISNESS days to be sucessfully credited to your account. If you've ever had a hold of varying length this is what you experience. For customer service reasons, many banks will give you access to these funds in good faith, knowing that most items do clear well before the maximum length the issuing bank has to return it. If you're a good customer you will not notice the float between the time you are actually "Credited" with the funds and the time you have to access them. If you've ever bounced a check, you know what happens when the check is returns.

Checks can be returned up to 1 year after thier original deposit. Normally, counterfeits have a 24 hour return time once they are notices, but most banks will accept late returns of these items.

The bank will return this on your account because you endorsed it, that is almost all the reason they need to do this. The fact that you were unable to verify funds before deposit on this item is not the banks fault.

You are ucky that didn't lost out your 4500.00 most of tyhe time when money is wester unioned outside the country it is unrecoverable. Next time you sell an item to someone youdo not know, call the issuing bank to make sure the item is legitimate.

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I don't mean this to be flippant, but all you seem to be doing is justifying a banks right to be an "Indian Giver" and I mean no disrespect with this statement ..it is simply an apt description of your position.

[soweak.]

[ QUOTE ]
" Checks can legally take 10 BUISNESS days to be sucessfully credited to your account"

Would you please tell me exactly what this statement means .

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure!

Lets first talk about how a check actually clears. First you deposit it into your local banks ATM, Branch, Night Deposit, et al. That check then goes to your banks check processing center, where it is sorted by which region the checks issuing bank is located. lets say you bank at Bank of California which is in Region 12 (I'm not sure, but for arguments sake this will work), lets say you deposit a check from your friend who banks with Bank of New York which is Region 1. That check goes to your bank processing center and then is physically transported to the other bank in New York. Unless these two banks share a similar clearing house (non-local banks tend to not unless they are nationwide, for arguments sake we will assume they do not clearing house at the same place) they have to first go to the Federal Reserve, where each bank credits and debits eachother for the amount of each check. In this case the Bank of California would recieve a credit for your check from Bank of New York, BEFORE THE NEW YORK BANK HAS EVEN SEEN THE CHECK! After the fed, the check are then physically shipped to the issuing banks so that the bank may debit the correct account.

This is the point where 95% of the time you are credited with the funds (coinciding with the bank getting a credit through the fed).

Because banking laws are archaic and designed to protect the banks, a check drawn off a bank not in the same region as the bank of first deposit can take 7-10 buisness days to complete this process. Any check over $5000 is considered a large deposit and is always on the later spectrum.

when the check arrives at the issuing bank, the bank will then debit the account accordingly. if a check is counterfeit, NSF, drawn of a closed account, payment stopped, or any other reason to refuse payment, it is returned in the exact same fashion, only in reverse.

Now you can see why check actually take so long to "clear" and longer to "return." If you actually waited the whole length of this process, you'd be waiting 2-3 weeks to recieve true funds. This is why banks choose to let you access these funds when they recieve the credit from the fed, because 95% of the time this is the end of thier interaction with the process.

Endorsement issues, breaches of warranty, and other late returns are a whole nother bag that I can get into if you want, but this wil lay the groundwork for the context of your questions.

[soweak.]

[ QUOTE ]


I don't mean this to be flippant, but all you seem to be doing is justifying a banks right to be an "Indian Giver" and I mean no disrespect with this statement ..it is simply an apt description of your position.

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I'm not justifying it, I'm just telling you how banks operate. The only way to eliminate practices like this is to remove checks a legal means of paying debts, and that will not happen anytime soon.

The law is written in such a way to allow you access your funds in a timely manner, instead of waiting 2-3 weeks. The government wants you to spend money, they would prefer you to have early access it, banks are allowed to collect upon it if it goes bad.

The message I'm trying to send is you should be carefull who you accept checks from.

[ManyBeers]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
" Checks can legally take 10 BUISNESS days to be sucessfully credited to your account"

Would you please tell me exactly what this statement means .

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure!

Lets first talk about how a check actually clears. First you deposit it into your local banks ATM, Branch, Night Deposit, et al. That check then goes to your banks check processing center, where it is sorted by which region the checks issuing bank is located. lets say you bank at Bank of California which is in Region 12 (I'm not sure, but for arguments sake this will work), lets say you deposit a check from your friend who banks with Bank of New York which is Region 1. That check goes to your bank processing center and then is physically transported to the other bank in New York. Unless these two banks share a similar clearing house (non-local banks tend to not unless they are nationwide, for arguments sake we will assume they do not clearing house at the same place) they have to first go to the Federal Reserve, where each bank credits and debits eachother for the amount of each check. In this case the Bank of California would recieve a credit for your check from Bank of New York, BEFORE THE NEW YORK BANK HAS EVEN SEEN THE CHECK! After the fed, the check are then physically shipped to the issuing banks so that the bank may debit the correct account.

This is the point where 95% of the time you are credited with the funds (coinciding with the bank getting a credit through the fed).

Because banking laws are archaic and designed to protect the banks, a check drawn off a bank not in the same region as the bank of first deposit can take 7-10 buisness days to complete this process. Any check over $5000 is considered a large deposit and is always on the later spectrum.

when the check arrives at the issuing bank, the bank will then debit the account accordingly. if a check is counterfeit, NSF, drawn of a closed account, payment stopped, or any other reason to refuse payment, it is returned in the exact same fashion, only in reverse.

Now you can see why check actually take so long to "clear" and longer to "return." If you actually waited the whole length of this process, you'd be waiting 2-3 weeks to recieve true funds. This is why banks choose to let you access these funds when they recieve the credit from the fed, because 95% of the time this is the end of thier interaction with the process.

Endorsement issues, breaches of warranty, and other late returns are a whole nother bag that I can get into if you want, but this wil lay the groundwork for the context of your questions.

[/ QUOTE ] Unless these two banks share a similar clearing house (non-local banks tend to not unless they are nationwide, for arguments sake we will assume they do not clearing house at the same place) they have to first go to the Federal Reserve, where each bank credits and debits eachother for the amount of each check. In this case the Bank of California would recieve a credit for your check from Bank of New York(AND Bank of New York would receive a debit So the bank already knows the check is no good), BEFORE THE NEW YORK BANK HAS EVEN SEEN THE CHECK! After the fed, the check are then physically shipped to the issuing banks so that the bank may debit the correct account.

Did you read where both banks debit and credit AT THE SAME TIME this means both banks were AND Bank of New York would receive a debit So the bank already knows the check is no good

[soweak.]

They (the issuing bank) know nothing about the check other than the fact that one bank claims a credit in the amount of the check.

They dont know what local account its drawn off of, who is was sent to, or whether it has had a payment stopped. For all they know it's a napkin encoded with thier routing and transit #. Once they receive the item (after the fed debits the bank's account with the fed) they will then truly decide to accept or return the item.

[ManyBeers]

Lets first talk about how a check actually clears. First you deposit it into your local banks ATM, Branch, Night Deposit, et al. That check then goes to your banks check processing center, where it is sorted by which region the checks issuing bank is located. lets say you bank at Bank of California which is in Region 12 (I'm not sure, but for arguments sake this will work), lets say you deposit a check from your friend who banks with Bank of New York which is Region 1. That check goes to your bank processing center and then is physically transported to the other bank in New York. Unless these two banks share a similar clearing house (non-local banks tend to not unless they are nationwide, for arguments sake we will assume they do not clearing house at the same place) they have to first go to the Federal Reserve, where each bank credits and debits eachother for the amount of each check. In this case the Bank of California would recieve a credit for your check from Bank of New York, BEFORE THE NEW YORK BANK HAS EVEN SEEN THE CHECK! After the fed, the check are then physically shipped to the issuing banks so that the bank may debit the correct account.

In other words both banks were simultaneously and electronically notified of the transaction , and my bank account was credited with 6,000.00 and the corresponding issuing bank account was debited 6.000.00, But since this account is empty the banks software would have sounded the alarm and a hold would have been put on the check Before the actual physical check had arrived. Amd they would immediately have notified my bank of the problem
and I would never have been told the check had cleared .

[youtalkfunny]

Good grief, I can't believe anyone is still trying to reason with this joker.

Can I save some of you some time? THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN SAY, NO MATTER HOW CORRECT YOU MAY BE, THAT WILL SOFTEN THE OP'S STANCE. NOTHING!

Somebody wrote the opinion that the OP is pulling our legs. I tend to agree. He's either having fun with us, or he has mental problems. I've known a lot of stubborn people in my lifetime, but I can't think of ONE who wouldn't say, "You know, I thought I knew what I was talking about, but thirty people in a row just told me that I was wrong. Maybe I should face the fact that I just might possibly be wrong on this one."

No need to reply to me, OP. I'm quite sure of what your response would be. Something along the lines of, "I'm not wrong! I'm not an idiot! Stop telling me I'm wrong! I don't care if 500 people line up to tell me I'm wrong--I'm not buying it!!"

[DCIAce]

This is pretty funny.

You fall for a low end scam, from a country known for this exact sort of thing. Luckily, you get bailed out by a bank teller, so you don't end up getting screwed.

Instead of thanking the bank teller, you post about this on OOT. All logical explainations are shot down. Even though your average ten year old has heard about these types of scams.. you somehow claim it's all some sort of fraud by the bank, despite the fact that someone at the bank protected you from your own naivety.

You are obviously a genius, and have seen through 2+2's obvious masking of the bank's fraudulent practices. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ManyBeers]

[ QUOTE ]
Good grief, I can't believe anyone is still trying to reason with this joker.

Can I save some of you some time? THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN SAY, NO MATTER HOW CORRECT YOU MAY BE, THAT WILL SOFTEN THE OP'S STANCE. NOTHING!

Somebody wrote the opinion that the OP is pulling our legs. I tend to agree. He's either having fun with us, or he has mental problems. I've known a lot of stubborn people in my lifetime, but I can't think of ONE who wouldn't say, "You know, I thought I knew what I was talking about, but thirty people in a row just told me that I was wrong. Maybe I should face the fact that I just might possibly be wrong on this one."

No need to reply to me, OP. I'm quite sure of what your response would be. Something along the lines of, "I'm not wrong! I'm not an idiot! Stop telling me I'm wrong! I don't care if 500 people line up to tell me I'm wrong--I'm not buying it!!"

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How can I be wrong, when all I am saying, is that this is the banking industry's way of commiting legalized fraud against its customers.( IMO) And my original point was that this has nothing to do with Nigeria.