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  #1  
Old 05-01-2006, 09:54 PM
Finch Finch is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
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Default 2/4 Big Blind...misplayed?

I'm a little uncomfortable after a flop when I have an awkward hand like middle pair or weak draws. For instance...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) HandConverter Link

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises</font>, Hero calls.

At the flop I was thinking: I intend to call a bet here, so I should bet at this and give the other two a chance to fold. My read on the villain tells me that he will raise in this situation with any top pair. I put him on an Ace and decided to fold the turn UI.

Turn: (3.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain bets</font>, Hero calls.

I think my call on the turn is what is bothering me. I saw the shiny new flush draw and counted up something like 13-14 outs. I didn't really allow for the possibility that my 9 isn't the largest diamond still in play. Looking back at it, this call seems to me like a player looking for a reason to stay in the hand [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. I need to fold this, right?

River: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Villain calls.

Now that I've hit, I can't give him a free showdown.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Any and all comments are appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2006, 11:09 PM
shark6 shark6 is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Big Blind...misplayed?

Bet/fold the flop since it's only 3-way action and you have second pair. You're hand doesn't have showdown value after you get raised on that flop.

Sure, the flop raiser could have a flush draw, but people love to play aces and even the times he has the flush draw he will draw out on you 1/3 of the time plus the times he catches an overcard on you. So, just bet/fold and move on.
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2006, 11:15 PM
Hoi Polloi Hoi Polloi is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Big Blind...misplayed?

You got yourself one weak draw in a small pot there, son, and there are a lot of cards between your middle pair and top pair that could hit villain if he doesn't have an A. There's just not much there to fight for or with.

As it plays out it's interesting. I can't really see where getting aggressive without a read is going to help you. You could c/r the turn but you'd have to have some idea of how villain's going to react to that.

I think the river bet is suspect but I'm too tired to do the math on villain holding a better diamond. He's probably not betting without the K so you might be better off taking the free showdown.

Curious hand. I don't hate the way you played it, but I think in the long-term these are the hands you want to take a stand with.
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  #4  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:23 AM
tom10167 tom10167 is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Big Blind...misplayed?

check fold the turn, even if you were ahead on the flop and villain was raising with a draw, you are now behind.
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  #5  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:35 PM
mdob mdob is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Big Blind...misplayed?

I like the flop. We don't have the immediate odds, but I think we can assume we'll make a BB if we hit one of our 5 outs on the turn, so this becomes a call.
I think the turn's very close. If we discount the 9s and 6s to 4 outs and say we'll win half the time the 4th diamond comes, that's 8 outs total. That's barely good enough immediate odds to call and I think we're taking reverse implied odds here.
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:57 PM
Finch Finch is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Big Blind...misplayed?

Villain showed me A2 with no diamonds and my flush was good. This prompted less-than-flatering comments from a couple of the other players.

I can't possibly fold this flop after the raise. I was quite sure that I was behind an Ace, but equally sure that the Villain could not get away from it if I hit two pairs and check-raised the turn.

From now on, in such a small pot, I think I'll make it a general rule to drop this type of hand on the turn without much thought.
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:58 PM
breakz breakz is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Big Blind...misplayed?

I would've initially said c/f the flop, since that 6 will rarely hold. But now I'm leaning towards a bet/fold, just b/c my advice is waaaaay too weak.

Fold that turn. You're not getting odds. Also, there's the possibility that your flush is 2nd-best (since its 9-high).
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