32K pot against Bld with 8 high? toughest decision I've ever had! - Page 6

MDMA · #51 04-26-2006, 03:36 AM

I agree with strasser that you could almost never try to represent JJ here due to turn action. I'm also wondering whether bld would really believe that you could AA here. He surely is aware of what line he has taken and what he represents; would he really believe you would call AA that often on turn, setting yourself up for a 4k call on river that pretty much only beats air (68,46)? As played, AA isn't that much stronger than any other one pair hand since, as already stated, you only beat a bluff basicxally. I think you have to take that into consideration at least, although I may be wrong. I find it unlikely he would believe you to call turn just so you could do, in this situation, a heroic call on the river w/ AA. I think your best chance would have been to represent 34 here, but as you took too much time to be believable, I think you should fold.

PokerJokerAA · #52 04-26-2006, 03:45 AM

I just call here and watch the chips slide to me as he flips over 4-6.

Lyric · #53 04-26-2006, 04:10 AM

Bld has a set or 34. Combined with the possibility that he may call with 77 or 55 here, pulling the trigger seems a bad plan. It also seems that you played your hand like AA, 77, 55, 22, 68, 46.

Bld is smart enough to put you on that range and will probably call with anything that beats it, however, you're probably raising a set on the flop or turn, including JJ, so that only leaves 68, 46, and AA.

The question is -- do you ever really play AA this way?

HotPants · #54 04-26-2006, 05:16 AM

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I actually hope he has a set, because if I hit my hand, it will be totally disguised.

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Since you raised preflop there's no way you can have 86? Is that what you thought he thunk?

If I had to guess, I would say build would have you on 86/64/34/22/55/AA/77. If I'm right, and build realizes you can play an OESD like this on the flop and turn, then I reckon it just comes down to a frequency thing, balancing your AA/34 with your air

Jay. · #55 04-26-2006, 05:36 AM

I lean towards push, the timing down sucks but still possible, his river bet size is strange, feels like 68, also possible are 46, 89 43. i don't believe 77 or 55 all that much either. Never played against him but does he usually limp behind with 77/55? 77 i doubt, and then the strange sized river bet. All this is going in your favour. He could have nothing which he def folds and he could be big which he may fold.

Also, once you push and say he has 22, i doubt he would be expecting a move, your range is wide but the majority of your range are decent holdings, which he may think you may not bluff with here, kk for example. Plus, he may not expect a 12k move out of you with 68 that you may or may not have raised preflop.

This range feels mostly like 68 46 vs 34 which would make this +EV. Add in 22 AND he calls and it's still +EV.

The turn would have been the better spot to push him off the hands. Problem is you were too busy jerkin' over possibly making a straight.

Dan Bitel · #56 04-26-2006, 06:49 AM

Just a quick question, does bld's flop call/raise actually show as much strength as every1 is saying? I've not seen you play before Sam (I play MUCH lower), but from what I read, after raising preflop, aren't you very likely to raise the flop here with a very wide range of hands, especially as UTG's lead was so weak. So could bld not be making a kind of squeeze type play on the flop?

Nielsio · #57 04-26-2006, 08:08 AM

You've got 1 buy-in invested. No way you should gamle 7 buyins more on a hand where both your holdings can be pretty wide.

For one thing it's pretty hard to represent some exact hands. And another thing: his turn bet could be a semi-bluff with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] .

Prevaricator · #58 04-26-2006, 08:26 AM

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You've got 1 buy-in invested.

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wtf does it matter how much he has put in. the pot is big, so can a push win it enough of the time to be +EV is how you should be thinking.

Nielsio · #59 04-26-2006, 09:03 AM

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You've got 1 buy-in invested.

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wtf does it matter how much he has put in. the pot is big, so can a push win it enough of the time to be +EV is how you should be thinking.

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I know this ofcourse, but I meant to say that this might not be a very good spot for the move and that he can get away relatively cheap.

durrrr · #60 04-26-2006, 09:55 AM

I dunno if i like this. Its the kind of spot where i'd wish i could freeze time and think about if for a few hours then decide what to do. Instead you have 60seconds. I'll shove here a lot- but bld isnt the best opponent to do it against. Imo a shove is probably slightly -EV in this particular hand... but still a good play...