I hate it when people limp RR (AQo 1/2 party)

Manhammer · #1 04-25-2006, 03:59 AM

I hate it when people limp RR PF, cause it seems like half the time they have total crap, half the time they have JJ+....

Anyways here's the reads:
UTG+1 is 50/1.5/.7 after about 400 hands. Most of the hands I have on him are from mining, but so far he seems like a typical loose-passive and hasn't done anything tricky or out of line yet.
BB is 19/7/1.9 after about 200 hands. Again most hands from mining, but so far this session, he's played more like a tight passive player than his stats suggest.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Dave is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, Dave raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 3-bets, Dave calls, BB calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Dave dies a little inside and then.........???

I suppose you could argue all three options, but one of them has to be best.....I just can't figure out which. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

dctufts · #2 04-25-2006, 04:14 AM

1.9 could be getting a little tricky. i think i 3 bet here, call a cap and fold the turn if he leads and we dont improve.

luckydonut · #3 04-25-2006, 05:37 AM

*grunch*
Reraise, otherwise you have no information and could end up calling two bets to showdown with a well beaten hand. You can call a cap on the flop but then need to improve. If for some reason he checks the turn, I'm checking behind then taking a showdown for one bet. Otherwise I'm folding UI to a turn bet.

Niediam · #4 04-25-2006, 05:40 AM

Fold - you are probably behind and having to call 2 bets to continue isn't profitable.

dctufts · #5 04-25-2006, 05:43 AM

AA, KK and an unlikely 99 & QQ are ahead of us right now. i think folding here may be a tad weak.

borges · #6 04-25-2006, 08:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
AA, KK and an unlikely 99 & QQ are ahead of us right now. i think folding here may be a tad weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is 99 unlikely for BB? It's hard to say what might be unlikely for UTG....given the passive read on the opponents, I would tend to think that the limp RR might very well mean the goods.

Given the passive reads, the limp RR (not so important but still a piece of information), and finally BB donking the flop into the preflop 3-better.....I don't think its positive EV to continue.....FOLD.

kerowo · #7 04-25-2006, 08:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
AA, KK and an unlikely 99 & QQ are ahead of us right now. i think folding here may be a tad weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never been at the tables with the limp rr meaning crap hands, they are always in the AA-QQ range. You've got two people interested in this pot so there is no way it is going to be a cheap showdown. I'd call the flop, hoping it wasn't capped and see what happened on the turn, with no real desire to put more than 1 bet in on the turn.

Sushiglutton · #8 04-25-2006, 08:43 AM

Considering ur reads on UTG+1 I would fold. In my experience people rarely limp-raise QQ-JJ cause as soon as they look at them they're getting scared to flop an ace and lose. Against a trickier player u can't fold cause ub have to worry about AK-AQs, KQs which u beat/split.

Str8Fish · #9 04-25-2006, 08:57 AM

12.5:2 = 6.25:1 that you hit a Q,A on turn.

JJ = winning
QQ = screwed
KK = you have 2 outs to Q's, 3 outs to A
AA = you have 2 outs to Q's

[AA,KK]
16.32% equity according to pokerstove.
EV(call)= 16.32%*12.5SB - 83.68%*2SB = +0.3664SB
EV(raise)= 16.32%*12.5SB - 83.68%*3SB = -0.47SB

[QQ-AA]
14.7% equity
EV(call)= 14.7%*12.5SB - 85.3%*2SB = +0.1315SB
EV(raise)= 14.7%*12.5SB - 85.3%*3SB = -0.7215SB

[JJ-AA]
42.2% equity
EV(call)= 42.2%*12.5SB - 57.8%*2SB = +4.12SB
EV(raise)= 42.2%*12.5SB - 57.8%*3SB = +3.54SB

So for every case, raising is definitely out and folding is definitely out. I would call.

Riginal · #10 04-25-2006, 09:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've never been at the tables with the limp rr meaning crap hands, they are always in the AA-QQ range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without a read , this is usually what it means. But I have seen players L/RR with garbage quite often. And not just LAG types , I saw a 45/3 L/RR utg with 58o just the other day.